This episode is going to throw a wrench into the Gorn depictions in STO
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x09 - "All Those Who Wander"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Not really, STO will just adapt like They always do when something new appears.
Besides, having the Gorn be a multiple type of species matches perfectly with their description of being a Hegemony type of society/race.
All of them agreeing to coexist as one.
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This episode was very discovery. I think some fans here on trek bss will soon start admitting strange new worlds was no holy new grail and has some of the same bad stuff as discovery and picard, it is the same people making both shows.
Hammer is a character now that lets be honest ....was just wasted. He reminds me of that cyborg (Airiam) character in discovery that died in season 2. Also why kill of the character that was one of the most diverse of the show. Hollywood sure love their fake diversity.
Again we see the derivate Kurtzman head runner writing, killing off characters that we have yet to get a real emotional bond with, not to mention fans for the last few episode complained we have not gotten enough Hammer. We start to get enough of him but he gets killed off. It would have made more sense to kill of Ortega.
I think Uhura should leave the show and go back to been a cadet, this show is proving why fans were concerned at the use of legacy characters. this character did not have to be even uhura and I refute how she is the wesley crusher of the show, who is kind of kiddie to other characters like Spock, Laan, Chapel when we know in TOS she was their equal and the show never suggested she was younger than them. I just don't see Celia Gooding as Uhura even after nine episode.
Geez, Chapel, girl you need to breathe. your thirst for Spock has now made you not too different from your TOS Counterpart, that apparently the show swore they would avoid as it was sexist. the only difference now is that as this is the age of modern writing. a woman that thirst for a man who initially has no interest in her must now return the feelings to an extent, the only thing is, we know it wont last at least not on Spock's end.
Also because of the retcon, Chapel now knows Spock has a fiancé unlike TOS , but she still likes to blur lines of firend and I want to be your girl friend. it will almost be cute if I know spock wont end up thing soup at her in ten years and ignoring her. that is more cringe than the uhura fan dance guys.
Laan is returning, in season 2. Hopefully with some development. I am tired of her too tough girl act and please can we get a different hair style for Laan. People seem to be obsessed with Pike's hair, well I think Laan may need to get a new hair style too.
Okay episode but now that we are almost at the end, there may have been a reason why they only screened the first 5 episode. they were likely the strongest.
Also fans, brace yourself of the Hammer backlash I think this is going to be worse than Airiam dieing in season 2 of discovery.
Discovery and SNW are cut from the same piece of cloth and this episode's death proves it.
Hammer is a character now that lets be honest ....was just wasted. He reminds me of that cyborg (Airiam) character in discovery that died in season 2. Also why kill of the character that was one of the most diverse of the show. Hollywood sure love their fake diversity.
Again we see the derivate Kurtzman head runner writing, killing off characters that we have yet to get a real emotional bond with, not to mention fans for the last few episode complained we have not gotten enough Hammer. We start to get enough of him but he gets killed off. It would have made more sense to kill of Ortega.
I think Uhura should leave the show and go back to been a cadet, this show is proving why fans were concerned at the use of legacy characters. this character did not have to be even uhura and I refute how she is the wesley crusher of the show, who is kind of kiddie to other characters like Spock, Laan, Chapel when we know in TOS she was their equal and the show never suggested she was younger than them. I just don't see Celia Gooding as Uhura even after nine episode.
Geez, Chapel, girl you need to breathe. your thirst for Spock has now made you not too different from your TOS Counterpart, that apparently the show swore they would avoid as it was sexist. the only difference now is that as this is the age of modern writing. a woman that thirst for a man who initially has no interest in her must now return the feelings to an extent, the only thing is, we know it wont last at least not on Spock's end.
Also because of the retcon, Chapel now knows Spock has a fiancé unlike TOS , but she still likes to blur lines of firend and I want to be your girl friend. it will almost be cute if I know spock wont end up thing soup at her in ten years and ignoring her. that is more cringe than the uhura fan dance guys.
Laan is returning, in season 2. Hopefully with some development. I am tired of her too tough girl act and please can we get a different hair style for Laan. People seem to be obsessed with Pike's hair, well I think Laan may need to get a new hair style too.
Okay episode but now that we are almost at the end, there may have been a reason why they only screened the first 5 episode. they were likely the strongest.
Also fans, brace yourself of the Hammer backlash I think this is going to be worse than Airiam dieing in season 2 of discovery.
Discovery and SNW are cut from the same piece of cloth and this episode's death proves it.
I'm really torn on this episode, because it's A+ character work which builds/concludes many of the arcs which have been built up across the (short) season attached to a B- level plot which is a direct lift of Aliens.
The episode did so much right in terms of semi-serialization. Literally every single episode was referenced with a story element here. We have a continuance of La'an's Gorn trauma plot from the first and fourth episodes. We have a callback to Uhura's lack of confidence in her abilities/indecisiveness regarding remaining in Starfleet from the second episode. We have the friendship between Uhura and Hemmer which began in the fourth episode. We have Spock's conflict between his human and Vulcan nature, and his developing friendship with romantic tension with Chapel, which was touched upon in the fifth and seventh episode. We have slight callbacks to M'Benga's sorrow about not having his daughter with him, which was an arc through episodes three, six, and eight. And despite this series often feeling like a DS9 speedrun, they pulled it all off! None of the character moments seem unearned, which is notable because Discovery and Picard have felt far more mixed results in this area. The result really feels like a season finale, though I know it isn't.
I'm not going to speculate on why Hemmer was killed off so early in the series run, but I do think it was an effective closure on his character. Too many members of the main cast (Pike, Spock, Chapel, M'Benga, Uhura) have plot armor effectively, since we know their stories continue into the future. Allowing someone we knew to die made it hit much harder here. In addition it does make a certain kind of sense to clear the deck for Season 2, as Scotty was (along with McCoy) one of the oldest characters from TOS, and one of the ones it would make the most sense to cycle in well before (James) Kirk enters the picture. I do not believe La'an is gone from the crew though - they did everything but directly turn to the camera to tell us she'll be back. My guess is she'll only be absent for the finale and there will be a time skip for the next season.
Turning back to the episode itself, it's kind of a shame that the plot of the episode doesn't stand up to scrutiny, as the character beats were so good. I think they got the direction of an action/horror hybrid ala Aliens correct, but there were several gigantic plot holes here. The scene where the two Gorn hatchlings - which had sharp teeth, but were the size of squirrels - dragged away a full-grown man was comical, which was totally not the intent of scene. I don't understand how Hemmer was infected with Gorn eggs via the acid either, as we were repeatedly told these were immature Gorn, which would imply they were too young to reproduce. Plus there's of course the question of how they grew from the size of a squirrel to a large dog in the space of (what seemed like) a few hours (though that's a big issue from the media they are making a homage to as well). I don't have any issue with retconning the Gorn in general, but it really shows that they are a plot device here rather than a concrete bit of worldbuilding, which has whatever strengths and weaknesses the writers need.
So yeah, combine amazing character moments, good direction, and a mediocre plot, and it averages out to a good, but not great outing.
The episode did so much right in terms of semi-serialization. Literally every single episode was referenced with a story element here. We have a continuance of La'an's Gorn trauma plot from the first and fourth episodes. We have a callback to Uhura's lack of confidence in her abilities/indecisiveness regarding remaining in Starfleet from the second episode. We have the friendship between Uhura and Hemmer which began in the fourth episode. We have Spock's conflict between his human and Vulcan nature, and his developing friendship with romantic tension with Chapel, which was touched upon in the fifth and seventh episode. We have slight callbacks to M'Benga's sorrow about not having his daughter with him, which was an arc through episodes three, six, and eight. And despite this series often feeling like a DS9 speedrun, they pulled it all off! None of the character moments seem unearned, which is notable because Discovery and Picard have felt far more mixed results in this area. The result really feels like a season finale, though I know it isn't.
I'm not going to speculate on why Hemmer was killed off so early in the series run, but I do think it was an effective closure on his character. Too many members of the main cast (Pike, Spock, Chapel, M'Benga, Uhura) have plot armor effectively, since we know their stories continue into the future. Allowing someone we knew to die made it hit much harder here. In addition it does make a certain kind of sense to clear the deck for Season 2, as Scotty was (along with McCoy) one of the oldest characters from TOS, and one of the ones it would make the most sense to cycle in well before (James) Kirk enters the picture. I do not believe La'an is gone from the crew though - they did everything but directly turn to the camera to tell us she'll be back. My guess is she'll only be absent for the finale and there will be a time skip for the next season.
Turning back to the episode itself, it's kind of a shame that the plot of the episode doesn't stand up to scrutiny, as the character beats were so good. I think they got the direction of an action/horror hybrid ala Aliens correct, but there were several gigantic plot holes here. The scene where the two Gorn hatchlings - which had sharp teeth, but were the size of squirrels - dragged away a full-grown man was comical, which was totally not the intent of scene. I don't understand how Hemmer was infected with Gorn eggs via the acid either, as we were repeatedly told these were immature Gorn, which would imply they were too young to reproduce. Plus there's of course the question of how they grew from the size of a squirrel to a large dog in the space of (what seemed like) a few hours (though that's a big issue from the media they are making a homage to as well). I don't have any issue with retconning the Gorn in general, but it really shows that they are a plot device here rather than a concrete bit of worldbuilding, which has whatever strengths and weaknesses the writers need.
So yeah, combine amazing character moments, good direction, and a mediocre plot, and it averages out to a good, but not great outing.
I don't think it will really happen, but remember what happened last time they killed off a minority character at the end of season one? Perhaps Aenar are in psychic tune with the mycelial network.
Speaking of season one though, I am sort of glad we have ten solid episodes rather than Discovery's more mixed fifteen that they had for S1.
This episode had Discovery episode 3 vibes with the mangled corpses and Sam Kirk being a jerk but that is where the similarities end for me. Overall the tone is very different and more positive even despite the darkness of this ep.
Speaking of season one though, I am sort of glad we have ten solid episodes rather than Discovery's more mixed fifteen that they had for S1.
This episode had Discovery episode 3 vibes with the mangled corpses and Sam Kirk being a jerk but that is where the similarities end for me. Overall the tone is very different and more positive even despite the darkness of this ep.
I don't see Kurtzman listed anywhere as being the writer of this particular episode.
Granted he's the main Producer of all of the current Trek iterations, but I doubt he does anything more than give a tacit approval to what the Writers of each show come up with.
Why do you make such silly statements just based on your hatred of the guy?
At the very least you might want to pay just a little attention to who is actually to blame for what you don't like about the episode.
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Did we watch the same show?
he is the creator of the show. his vision is what we see in the show. look at it this way, Joss Whedom may not have written many Buffy episodes but Buffy the vampire slayer was his vision and he used many writers to bring it to life.
I don't hate the guy as I dont know his personally what I do know is his tv and films and how bad, medicore, rushed, average they can be. SNW has been going down since the last few episodes but this episode with hammers death represents some of the worst aspect of discovery that we see here.
Would be really funny if they pulled a Shaxs, and Hemmer is just back next season without an explanation.
Yes, the Creator, but not the actual every-day Decision Maker for each individual show.
He and his associate producers set up the premise of each particular show and then let the folks he's actually hired to run the show do their thing.
And Whedon is a very poor example to use for rebuttal as he WAS very much involved in the everyday running and the nitty-gritty of Buffy.
Whedon is even well known for actually overseeing and editing the writing of each individual script before allowing it to be produced.
Something we have no evidence of in your accusation of Kurtzman doing the same.
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I’m sorry to see Hemmer go but maybe we will now get Scotty next season. His death was ripped right out of Wrath of Khan.
I was just waiting for Cadet Chia and Lieutenant Whatever to be eaten. The only thing they didn’t have on was redshirts.
I am still convinced the timeline has been altered to some degree by all the meddling that has taken place. In my head canon, Pike is going to escape his fate and Chapel has a chance with Spock.
I was just waiting for Cadet Chia and Lieutenant Whatever to be eaten. The only thing they didn’t have on was redshirts.
I am still convinced the timeline has been altered to some degree by all the meddling that has taken place. In my head canon, Pike is going to escape his fate and Chapel has a chance with Spock.
I think it is more discovery season 2 vibe, however it still very discovery, both shows are beginning to merge.
Also I love how the show for all their diversity, spock and chapel who are white characters seem to be reigning as the most favoured male and female characters on the show to the point people are now willing to for go canon entirely.
in TOS Chapel says in an episode that this is the very first time she has been this close to spock and now she wants to die. those were her words, so how do we go from that to the possibility of spock and chapel having sex in SNW and giving him hugs that is crossing the lines of a man who has a fiancée.
Let's be honest spock sexual relationship with Tpring has already stretched canon. Now we are meant to believe he likely also bedded Chapel. Although some fans dont seem to care and part of it is because spock and chapel (white characters) have been written and depicted as the most alluring and sexual appealing and most intriguing characters of the show at the expense of other minority characters who from what I have seen, did not even get any romantic story arc. at least discovery in season 1 had about 3 romantic stories going on and with minorities characters.
Laan is Asian and she is gone..,for now. Ortega is latino but she is the quipper and has not done much but quip and disrespect pike, uhura may be black and iconic but boy, was she down graded on this show and not even needed. Hammer is blind and now he has been killed off.
Meanwhile Spock, Chapel, Pike and Una all feel like alpha white male and female characters untouched. I would even say even they all got upgraded a little bit much, making the show take too much of a different road to believe it ends with TOS but it does.
TOS may have been dated , racist and sexist. However this show is still aligning with the status quo that the white characters will always remain the most favoured alphas in every way.
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Big Hemmer Energy might entail reappearing like Leslie or Galloway with no explanation. 
I did love his "feels just like Andoria" lines when he was being buffeted by the cold winds. At least he died with a smile on his face.
I did love his "feels just like Andoria" lines when he was being buffeted by the cold winds. At least he died with a smile on his face.
Lots of things to like in this episode, and there’s some lines of dialogue that I think some have missed judging by some of the reactions on here. I would have preferred it to have been a little less derivative but all in all it was a decent episode, slotted in to the middle of the pack. 8/10
I’m really tired of quota counting. Pike, Una, Spock, Chapel , M’Benga, and Uhura are all main characters and I am glad they were developed, though I do think I’m watching an altered timeline. We don’t know what happened to Una. She could just as easily be killed off next season along with Ortegas or they could get a happy ending. La’an could adopt the orphan herself or put her in foster care and be back. Who knows? I’m sure other characters of all backgrounds will appear and be killed or leave for other reasons.
Nine good or terrific episodes in a row. The first time that's happened in a first season since TOS.
Whatever SNW's been doing it hasn't been doing it perfectly but it's been doing it consistently.
Whatever SNW's been doing it hasn't been doing it perfectly but it's been doing it consistently.
The Star Trek Adventures Beta Quadrant Sourcebook established that there are multiple Gorn species. The TOS Gorn are called the Ssessekh and the ENT Gorn are called the Russth. The same book also gives six different names for the Gorn homeworld, claiming that they are all names for the same planet used by different Gorn species, implying that there are at least six species of Gorn. That leaves room for the Star Trek Online Gorn as well as whatever appeared in this episode.