Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x03 - "Ghosts of Illyria"

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Oh, I think STID is probably the worst Trek film yet made. But I do love 2009 and BEY.

ItD ranks higher for me than most of the TNG movies. And I certainly like Kirk being the one to fix the reactor... it's something TOS Kirk would've done. He'd have run to engineering to see what could be done, not sit idly on the bridge to die like in TWOK.

And I do like the movie's theme of the militarization of our society using an outside "threat" to justify it. See the Drug War. See the War on Terror. See the militarization of police.

But the moment Cumberbatch utters the name, "Khan," the movie just loses what it could've been had he'd just played a disgruntled Starfleet officer with PTSD.

 

[Jedi Marso]

In a way he's the most liberated lead character in all of Trek history. Only Archer could come close knowing that he would play a critical role in the birth of the Federation.

Except Daniels tried to warn Archer off, implying that 'free will' was very much in play and that Daniels feared for the future if Archer did something risky and got himself killed. Although from Daniels' perspective, Archer had already made his choice, done what he did, and survived to found the Federation.

I hate temporal mechanics!

 

[Jayson1]

I really liked the episode. It is nice just having classic Star Trek feeling Trek back. Also can't wait to see what the next character secret will be. Are we going to find Tyler's skeleton in waste distraction. Ortegas just really really wanted a promotion!

 

[TRON JA307020]

Una being Illyrian was first mentioned in 1989 novel 'Vulcan's Glory'.

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Illyrian

Novels dealing with her after Enterprise had the more alien looking Illyrians had her as a human growing up on one of their colonies.


And he didn't even give a shit, he basically told Daniels to fuck off, I'm going on this suicide mission. Not because he though he was immortal.

Ok so Illyrians were in the books. So they are mining material from the novels

 

[captainmkb]

Pulaski made superhumans...

uh? i know a lot of people don't like Pulaski but .. well.. ah nvm you'll figure it out someday

It's what happened.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Unnatural_Selection_(episode)

I haven't seen the episode in years...

Really simply, if you'd follow that link or re-watch the episode, you'd see that Pulaski had nothing to do with that.

pertinent to the discussion: yes there was a genetic engineering thing going on and it did have bad results, and everyone involved was generally disapproving, so it was not a big stretch to expand the continuity (in later seasons) to include the fact that the said disapproved-of thing was highly illegal.

as your two thoughts, i don't know why they'd be uncomfortable,they're certainly not crowded in there

 

[Yistaan]

Ok so Illyrians were in the books. So they are mining material from the novels

Overriding the actual tv canon apparently since as pointed out on this thread they were aliens in Enterprise. You think they could have at least changed their name.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

But the moment Cumberbatch utters the name, "Khan," the movie just loses what it could've been had he'd just played a disgruntled Starfleet officer with PTSD.

Agreed, had he remained John Harrison and lost the 72 followers we barely get a glimpse of the movie would instantly be better. Casting choices aside, I couldn't stand how they have him reveal his identity as if it meant anything to Kirk and Spock and not just meant to be a shock to the audience and the audience alone. Felt like a 4th wall break, really.

Also, "behind the aft nacelle" Ugh.

 

[Yistaan]

Ambassador Spock: Khan Noonien Singh is the most dangerous adversary the Enterprise ever faced. He is brilliant, ruthless, and he will not hesitate to kill every single one of you.

Kelvin Timeline Spock: You spent too much time talking to La'an, along with yourself possibly being emotionally compromised by Khan actually succeeding in killing you.

 

[captainmkb]

Overriding the actual tv canon apparently since as pointed out on this thread they were aliens in Enterprise. You think they could have at least changed their name.

seems like they made hash out of it — DC Fontana established the Number One aspect of it and the name Ilyria, ENT did a tangent without really intending to, then Child of Two Worlds and Desperate Hours were the ones that danced it around some in order to fit the pieces together.

this episode is just regularizing it all some to fit the new show's continuity. pretty deft and avoided the necessity of blowing away any previous source (even though some chipping and cracking does occur)

 

[Noname Given]

An unabashed 10

I really liked this one. And that's how to do a Trek A/B plot - BOTH in service to the same story.

The only predictable truly thing to me was that is was pretty blatantly obvious Una was a Illyrian early on. You could see that coming from a mile away.

My other minor nitpicks:

- Seems VERY easy to get past a 'classified' Star Fleet lockout. If all you have to do is be the appropriate rank, and state "Override" - I mean IF the Computer already knows who is making the request, and they have appropriate rank; why the need to state 'classified' if it the lockout can be so easily overridden?

- IF Hemmer could use the Transporter to lock onto, and beams up a piece of the planet's mantle - they SHOULD have been able to beam Pike and Spock back earlier as well.

(And no...the Transporter as a method of life suspension doesn't bother me as hey, if Montgomery Scott could jury rig a 23rd century era transporter on a Cargo ship as a way to keep himself alive for 80 years - which he will do in the nest 30 years or so - yeah, M'Benga as a doctor should be able to leverage his medical transporter in a similar fashion; but yes his method isn't quite as good/stable, since it requires him to rematerialize the patient periodically.)

In the end, I really LOVE that they show all they characters as real human beings, with faults, real secrets and honest/good and emotional reasons as to WHY they are keeping their various secrets. These are things that were 'adjusted out' of the characters in TNG, and why I really prefer the TOS era (and TOS) over TNG and the majority of Berman era Star Trek (for me both DS9 - in its later seasons and ENT tried to get back to and show that aspect of humanity still existed -- but TNG? No, not really.

And here was a story about prejudices and why they are detrimental that didn't overly hit you in the face with the fact that it was the emotional core of the story. All the characters actions and motivations made sense and didn't come across as contrived just for this week's story beats.

I also that they continued the 'prejudice' theme of the episode even on the B Plot on the Planet. Pike and Spoke of course assumed the ionic entities were out to hurt them because they were scared as they HAVE seems alien 'monsters' out to get them, and 8 times out of 10 that's the best thing to assume - but yeah in the end, they were benevolent and just out to try and keep both of them alive.

So yeah, a 10 from me for this one.
(Which surprises even me as I usually like the more action oriented stories more than the 'morality play' type stuff, but this one struck a nice chord with me.)

 

[Jedman67]

Is she so insanely strong, though? She picked up Hemmer in a fireman's carry: something a normal human male in decent physical shape should be able to do, no problem. Did we see her do anything that represented something like 5x normal human strength? (As advertised for Augments)

She might not be a Khan-augment.
I theorize that Ilurians are non-earth humans (or a very closely related species) who genetically modified themselves, and are not related to those seen in ENT.

She casually picked him up like he was a doll. That's not something a normal human male can do, never mind a female.

Assuming, as the episodes to date demonstrate, that Una is highly toned and highly trained, a fireman's carry shouldn't be so hard. Maybe she's naturally stronger due to genetic engineering? Why not

 

[Fateor]

Which is unfortunate in terms of how it catches the likes of the Illyrians and (potentially) the Denobulans in its net. Although, given the troubles faced by the Bashir family in the 24th century, it appears that squaring this particular circle is not something the Federation is going to be able to manage any time soon...

No, they did.

The problem with the Bashir's was they went to a back ally clinic and utilized genetic modifications that were very specifically illegal in the Federation.

That said, we can get an idea of what is and isn't legal by the TNG era from a couple TNG/VOY episodes.

Curing genetic defects/diseases is legal for Federation Citizens.
Working on genetic enhancements is legal in authorized Federation facilities.

 

[Tuskin38]

Someone mentioned earlier that they edited one of the clips in the previously on to remove Singh from La'an's introduction

To add to that, someone in the TrekCore comments also says Chapel only called her Lt. Noonien in this episode.

 

[shapeshifter]

An unabashed 10

I really liked this one. And that's how to do a Trek A/B plot - BOTH in service to the same story.

Same..

I laughed, I was freaked out, amazed and I cried. 10 isn't even close to the level of satisfaction this episode delivered.

 

[Noname Given]

No, they did.

The problem with the Bashir's was they went to a back ally clinic and utilized genetic modifications that were very specifically illegal in the Federation.

That said, we can get an idea of what is and isn't legal by the TNG era from a couple TNG/VOY episodes.

Curing genetic defects/diseases is legal for Federation Citizens.
Working on genetic enhancements is legal in authorized Federation facilities.

No the problem is: Such Genetic manipulation is illegal in the Federation; and they DON'T allow their citizens to even go to a world outside the Federation to escape said restriction -- the BAN is that stringent.

That said, it also appears there's a kind of 'we won't ask if you don't tell' aspect. The ONLY reason Bashir got in trouble was because he lied about it on his application to join Star Fleet (a criminal offence) - and BECAUSE he was going to be a EMH template, Star Fleet Medical was left with a big egg on its face for not detecting this sooner -- so yeah, it blew up so big SOMEONE had to go to jail -- and it was his father who shouldered the blame because the family also had it done before Julian was of an age to be legally able to consent (IE - His father made the choice for him, so yeah the Federation isn't going to hold him personally responsible for a choice 'forced' on him.) The only conceit in the episode is that Star Fleet allows Julian to remain once everyone knows his status. He should have been dishonorably discharged for lying on his application to Star Fleet - but he he's a regular on the show, so yeah Star Fleet is lenient.

 

[Charles Phipps]

The only conceit in the episode is that Star Fleet allows Julian to remain once everyone knows his status. He should have been dishonorably discharged for lying on his application to Star Fleet - but he he's a regular on the show, so yeah Star Fleet in lenient.

I believe it was a plea bargain actually. Julian gets to stay in Starfleet for his father not making a fus over his imprisonment.

I assume this issue is controversial enough that they could make a stink over it.

 

[rocketdave]

Someone mentioned earlier that they edited one of the clips in the previously on to remove Singh from La'an's introduction

To add to that, someone in the TrekCore comments also says Chapel only called her Lt. Noonien in this episode.

Both those people are me, so I may be the only one wondering why this apparent change was made.

 

[Tuskin38]

Both those people are me, so I may be the only person wondering why this apparent change was made.

Well so you are. Hello! lol

 

[UssGlenn]

Although the Franklin being in service in 2164 when it's clearly a smaller and more primitive starship begs the question of why the NX-01 was turned into a museum ship when older, less powerful vessels still hung around.

Because it's the Enterprise, the most important ship in the founding of the Federation. After surviving the Romulan Wars, they retired her rather than risk loosing this important historical artifact to a random ion storm or something. Also, I think her being in the Fleet Museum is also why there wasn't another Enterprise for so long, the name was "taken". I mean it was technically available, but no one wanted to use it since the NX-01 Enterprise is still parked right over there.

 

[G. Boney]

The "genetic engineering is bad kids!" thing came about on DS9 in order to give Bashir a tragic backstory. TNG said nothing negative about it, and portrayed several colonies which augmented themselves genetically.

Don't know which episode it is, but I recall Picard speaking negatively about genetic engineering. Don't remember if it was a captain's log or if he was talking to someone.