Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x03 - "Ghosts of Illyria"

[Jedi Marso]

This is a great fanwank for why we never see Denobulans (chronologically) after Enterprise, aside from that tiny Lower Decks cameo. That actually could be a great story to tell someday, the falling out between the cultures -- like, the Denobulans were among the first aliens to show up to help the humans for their first forays into space, and then they get pushed out of the cool new club because their way of life doesn't play by human rules?

That thought occurred to me as well. An excellent explanation of why we don't see Denobulans in later eras, and a story to flesh out as well.

 

[Sakonna]

We were all expecting that La'an would be the augment, and although she might have some fractional augment ancestry, that's clearly not salient. Instead Una is...and apparently an alien too? Or are the Illyrians (since it's the name of an ancient country in what's now Yugoslavia) some lost human colony? The played kinda fast/loose with whether Una was really an alien here, which I think is deliberate on the part of the showrunners.

So a lot of people were right about the title. Adopting the name of Number One’s homeworld from the novels.

Maybe "Damage" needs a rewatch, but I was a little thrown by how much the presentation of Illyrian's here didn't seem to connect back to the earlier ep (though yes, of course it's all explainable).

Can anyone fill me in on how this was used in the novels? And when was that first introduced in the novels?

 

[TRON JA307020]

I do wonder, if the Illyrians are augmented only to adapt to worlds, why is Number One so insanely strong? Not sure her story holds.

We'll probably find out more about it. I was confused if she's human or not. I always felt she was human. Not sure if novels or comics can shed some light. I kind of liked ot knowing much about her but i guess they have to get a back story.

 

[Jadeb]

I don't know what subversion is going on, we basically are getting Bashir's genetically augment "secret" all over again.

Maybe subvert isn’t the right word. But they’re using the plots differently than a lot of Trek — the point isn’t to reach a technobabble solution. Instead, there’s a lot of exploration of parallel themes and the like, which I’m enjoying. The real resolution here isn’t “we found the cure” but “Una and M’Benga find unexpected trust and a certain peace among their Enterprise family.”

 

[cooleddie74]

Pike knows how to walk the fine line between breaking the rules and protecting his crew and his friends. Like all good Captains should.

 

[Yistaan]

Pike knows how to walk the fine line between breaking the rules and protecting his crew and his friends. Like all good Captains should.

The only good thing about that awful vision he got is that he knows he'll be a fleet captain in roughly a decade regardless of whatever he does now. And if he does get kicked out of Starfleet, that means his awful vision is averted. Either way, he has no reason to be restrained by Starfleet rules anymore really.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Ghosts of Illyria.

Hmm.

Knights of Cydonia.

I knew this ep title reminded me of Guitar Hero for some reason! It's been picking at my brain all morning!

 

[cooleddie74]

In a way he's the most liberated lead character in all of Trek history. Only Archer could come close knowing that he would play a critical role in the birth of the Federation.

 

[Tuskin38]

Can anyone fill me in on how this was used in the novels? And when was that first introduced in the novels?

Una being Illyrian was first mentioned in 1989 novel 'Vulcan's Glory'.

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Illyrian

Novels dealing with her after Enterprise had the more alien looking Illyrians had her as a human growing up on one of their colonies.

Only Archer could come close knowing that he would play a critical role in the birth of the Federation.

And he didn't even give a shit, he basically told Daniels to fuck off, I'm going on this suicide mission. Not because he though he was immortal.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yep. His basic attitude was: "If you're right and I help found this Federation then that means my mission will be successful and I'll be alive. So get out of my way."

 

[Yistaan]

Is she so insanely strong, though? She picked up Hemmer in a fireman's carry: something a normal human male in decent physical shape should be able to do, no problem. Did we see her do anything that represented something like 5x normal human strength? (As advertised for Augments)

To quote tvtropes' recap of this episode: Una and La'an slug it out when the latter attempts to drop the warp containment field, partially motivated by La'an being furious over Una's lies about being an Illyrian. Una has the clear advantage in the fight and isn't taking it seriously, eventually slugging La'an unconscious.

So depending on how much augment strength that La'an inherited, Una could be incredibly strong.

Is she actually the diabolical Future Guy from Enterprise?

No, Future Guy is Pike going through extremely desperate attempts to avert his delta radiation accident.

 

[Noname Given]

The Khan of TOS has been left behind. Under that Khan, there were no massacres. Under this new Khan, there were massacres. He is described by his descendant as a mass murderer.

SPOCK: Gentlemen, this romanticism about a ruthless dictator is
KIRK: Mister Spock, we humans have a streak of barbarism in us. Appalling, but there, nevertheless.
SCOTT: There were no massacres under his rule.
SPOCK: And as little freedom.
MCCOY: No wars until he was attacked.

The show has canonized the fact that Una Chin-Riley was an Illyrian.

Sorry, but if you look at TOS "Space Seed" and Khan - "WE offered the world ORDER!" - anyone who rejected that offer was killed. Khan was ready to brutally murder ANYONE in Kirk's crew that he didn't need as soon as he was disobeyed. The romanticized idea that Khan was somehow different from the rest of the Augments who ALL fought for power and felt any non-augment was beneath them and only were somewhat usable as slaves (until they died or were killed) is false. When it came right down to it, he WAS exactly the same as the rest of them.

The Khan that we'll see in 7 or so years in TOS is cryogenically preserved and will be released to be ass much of an evil dictator as he was in the 20th century.

No canon violation here.

 

[Nerroth]

There was that Augment incident involving Cold Station 12 back in 2154, plus the subsequent "affliction" which led to a "divergence" of millions of Klingons later that same year - which, I suspect, was one of the key motivations behind the "remain Klingon" movement that led to the Federation-Klingon War. (Or rather, blaming humans - and, by extension, the Federation - for the "affliction" would be an all-too-easy means for said movement to avoid accepting any responsibility on the Empire's behalf for what happened back then...)

So it might be that the Council's policies regarding Augments are not solely due to the legacy of the Eugenics Wars in and of themselves, but as an attempt to prevent a "genetic arms race" breaking out between the UFP and its more hostile neighbours.

Which is unfortunate in terms of how it catches the likes of the Illyrians and (potentially) the Denobulans in its net. Although, given the troubles faced by the Bashir family in the 24th century, it appears that squaring this particular circle is not something the Federation is going to be able to manage any time soon...

Or are the Illyrians (since it's the name of an ancient country in what's now Yugoslavia) some lost human colony?

What is now the former Yugoslavia. Although the centre of ancient (pre-Roman) Illyria was partly in present-day Albania.

 

[tomalak301]

I liked this episode, but it was really the final 10 minutes that put this episode to an 8. I love how each week we are getting a character story for the entire cast so far, and it's allowing us to really get to know these characters and how they tick. It also provided social commentary which Star Trek was always good at and stands kind of in contrast to the other modern shows, which was more asking questions rather than telling the audience what is right vs what is wrong. The scene at the end when Una asked What if Pike had accepted her if she wasn't a hero really stood out to me because that felt real. We have so many instances in human history where we treat people badly because of a select few and our emotional preconceptions take over. I thought this episode did a great job walking that line in talking about bigotry, but highlighting why there is that bigotry. M'Banga's line about trading one form of Bigotry for another was a fine example of that.

The episode almost got a 7 from me (And the first and second episodes both got 9s) because it started out as standard fare for the most part. The stuff with Pike and Spock on the planet didn't really go anywhere and the whole lockdown of the ship was very much Covid related, especially the whole thing about "Non-essential" personnel, which I'm starting to look at differently than before, and it's more in a negative light. Hemmer is slowly becoming my favorite new character though. Looking forward to the episode spotlighting him.

I'm also hoping as this series goes on we might start seeing some of the older races again, like the Klingons, Tellerites, and maybe early Cardassians. The ideas for this show are wide ranging.

 

[captainmkb]

Pulaski made superhumans, which turned into a plauge that tried to kill all the baseline humans.

uh? i know a lot of people don't like Pulaski but .. well.. ah nvm you'll figure it out someday

 

[rocketdave]

No, she said Noonien Singh in the opening episode. I just checked.

Yeah, I actually went back and checked myself before I made my post. She calls herself La'an Noonien-Singh in the first episode, but the recap seems to sort of "retcon" that by truncating the dialogue from that scene and having her just say "La'an Noonien" instead, like the producers belatedly decided to alter/shorten the character's name. Whatever; it's just a slightly odd thing that caught my attention.

 

[cooleddie74]

And Noonien-Singh is hyphenated in her case whereas it wasn't for Khan, a further attempt to distance herself from Khan without having to completely change her name unless the hyphen was added by a family member between 1996 and her birth.

 

[Saul]

Poor Julian Bashir....

What I liked about Una was that she was smart and talented. I kinda feel genetic modification detracts from her character's strong points, saying she is who she is because of her modification and not because she's just really good all on her own.

By the end of the episode I was left with the feeling that these people should be in bigger trouble than they actually are.

Anyway. Still engaged with the show. I actually look forward to new Star Trek episodes now.

 

[Belz...]

Is she so insanely strong, though? She picked up Hemmer in a fireman's carry: something a normal human male in decent physical shape should be able to do, no problem. Did we see her do anything that represented something like 5x normal human strength? (As advertised for Augments)

She casually picked him up like he was a doll. That's not something a normal human male can do, never mind a female.

Ahh. Say no more. That explains why I wasn't familiar. I've actively brain-dumped most of JJ-Trek.

Into Darkness isn't great but I had a lot of fun with the other two. Beyond does connect to Prime canon by mentioning events just prior to Enterprise, thus before Nero's change.

 

[Guy Gardener]

What if Pike set's the ships gravity to 70 percent of earth Normal?

Baring long term health detriments, it seems like the Captain's prerogative.

uh? i know a lot of people don't like Pulaski but .. well.. ah nvm you'll figure it out someday

It's what happened.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Unnatural_Selection_(episode)

I haven't seen the episode in years, but I got two uncomfortable thoughts.

1. Sex Slaves.
2. Regular slaves in case holograms don't work out.