Spoilers Star Trek: Picard General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Tuskin38, Sep 28, 2019.

  1. Rao Van Tickle

    Rao Van Tickle Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Now that I let sink in for a while the fact that the TNG crew really is returning...

    I've been a bit weary of the Berman era for some time now, even bittered of some of its aspects, especially after witnessing all that is possible in Trek in last few years. So I came to the conclusion that Star Trek needs to march ever forward and try as much as possible to try new things and explore possibilities in the way of storytelling etc.

    Build on the existing lore and expand it without being hindered and held back by it. Use legacy characters when appropriate, but in fresh new ways exploring their growth.

    But I have to admit these days how much merit there is to the idea of taking the best of the Berman era as an orientation - IF it can be made sure that the bad parts, which held much of it back even when TNG-ENT aired, get ditched.

    That philosophy would not only be a fantastic way to tie in to past events and characters, but could also be applied in setting up whole new series going forward. Getting it exactly right might prove to be wizardry though.

    We'll see how much of a wizard Matalas is - I for one am increasingly optimistic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2022
  2. Timofnine

    Timofnine Vice Admiral Moderator

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    It’s obvious whey they made the Klingon prosthetics so full on and concealing of human features. It was because one of the plot points in season one of Discovery was disguising Shazad Latif as a Klingon. The normal prosthetics would not have done this and everyone would have guessed the twist. :shrug:
     
  3. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Some people guessed it anyways, because the actor credited for Voq didn't exist outside of DSC, and that Actor's name was tired to Shazad Latif in some way that I'm forgetting.
     
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And then reduced them back. It's the wonderful world of make up change.

    And, fans would have guessed that they were relatives despite Trek's long history of actors playing different characters across the franchise ;)

    But, it should be noted that part of the Klingon design language, make up included, was to give them a far more alien look than they had before. Which sounds about in line with why it was changed and futzed with and updated since TMP. Same thing with Romulans in TNG.
     
  5. Rao Van Tickle

    Rao Van Tickle Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The first name of Shazad's father was used, I think.
     
  6. Romulan_spy

    Romulan_spy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  7. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So, what will that be now? 204 Trek productions with the TMP theme?

    Yeah, sorry, novelty has worn off on the Goldsmith theme. It’s still classic but it’s almost as much as hearing the Force theme in a Star Wars movie — expected.
     
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  8. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think you're confusing Goldsmith's TMP/TNG music with Courage's TOS music. The former only appears in TMP/TNG/PIC (and STV...), with which it is associated. The latter appears in 204 Trek productions.
     
  9. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Campe's number is only off by two. The TMP/TNG theme has in fact been used 206 times. All 178 episodes of TNG, the 20 episodes of Picard that have aired so far, TMP, TFF, three of the four TNG movies (it's not featured in Generations), one episode of Enterprise and two episodes of Lower Decks.

    Assuming by "Courage's TOS music" you mean the the full theme, then that's only been used 88 times. All 80 episodes of TOS, TMP, the three Kelvin movies, once on Enterprise and three times on Disco. You can up that to 97 if you count the variant used for SNW's theme. If you're referring to the Courage Fanfare specifically that's been used 370 times. All 80 episodes of TOS, all178 episodes of TNG, all 13 movies, all 55 episodes of Disco, all 20 episodes of Picard, all 10 episodes of SNW, all ten episodes of Prodigy, twice on DS9, once on Voyager and once on Enterprise.
     
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  10. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    It would be weird not to hear it in a season dedicated to TNG.
     
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  11. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don’t disagree. And I love the theme, particularly with TMP, but it’s hard to get excited about something that’s expected at this point.


    Nobody’s perfect. ;)
     
  12. StewMc

    StewMc Commodore Commodore

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    I'm pretty sure the TNG/TMP theme didn't appear in every episode of Picard S2 (it wasn't used in the opening credits unlike S1), though it did appear a bunch of times, so 204 is probably a more accurate figure than 206 (might even be less than that). :)
     
  13. TedShatner10

    TedShatner10 Commodore Commodore

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    Oh noes, another boring YT video on Picard Season 2 being "bad" (Dan: "I don't want to be a gate keeper..." but proceeds to be a TNG gate keeper and obsess insanely over wobbly Trek canon):



    I think the time travel makes some sense (Q intervenes when Picard and Co. blow themselves up, Q never intended to kill Picard's ancestor, using a Borg Queen and Soong ancestor as pawns for a "good" outcome, and Guinan is implied to be a time treaveler herself, with her young version younger than the "Time's Arrow" version who may have travelled back in time from the 21st or 22nd century, etc).

    Season 2 was definitely weaker than Season 1, and Season 3 should knock it out the park to fully redeem the show, but Terry Matalas is a self-confessed fan of TNG, fans have their own perceptions and opinions, and entrenched fandom is never fun.
     
  14. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think that’s my biggest concern about season 3. While I really didn’t want a revisit of all the TNG cast, I’ve accepted this is what we’re going to get and I hope I can just relax and enjoy it. But as fans, we have our opinions about these characters and how we believe they should be now 20 years on. What happens what Terry wants for Geordi isn’t what the greater part of fandom wants? We get tons of gatekeeping like we’ve had for years. There’s no meeting these expectations because we’ve built them so high in our heads.

    You ask ten Star Trek fans what exactly they’d want from new Trek, you’d get a dozen different answers. Maybe 2 or 3 are actually ones that everyone would like.

    More and more I realize I’m not jaded against the content. I’m jaded against the fandom.
     
  15. shapeshifter

    shapeshifter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I blame money. Charismatic speakers being able to make money by talking draws in more and more charismatic speakers. And not just Trek.

    "Experts" for anything are now waiting to bend any ear itching to hear what they want to hear.
     
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  16. TedShatner10

    TedShatner10 Commodore Commodore

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    Those kind of grifters are now flying like flies to shit over Amazon's Rings Of Power series and been congregating over the MCU's overly crowded, muddled Phase 4 (which has its issues - I blame Covid and Chadwick Boseman's sudden, premature death).
     
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  17. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No: she says she can alter her appearance and the showrunners said she didn't remember the events of Time's Arrow because Picard and company hadn't corrected the time line yet so in the currently most likely future Picard hadn't gone back to 1893.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2022
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  18. TedShatner10

    TedShatner10 Commodore Commodore

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    That's implied as well, but I assume the Confederate timeline was a branched off timeline that Q chose to set up the more friendly Borg Queen, to save the present, and preserve the paradox.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2022
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  19. Char Kais

    Char Kais Commander Red Shirt

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    Great review.

    Dan Murrell addresses almost all the major problems of Picard season 2.

    From the smaller, more obvious problems, like:
    And that the writers don't know what "Ten Forward" is.

    To the continuing problem that NuTrek writers (including the writers on Discovery) don't know what a starship refit is:
    [​IMG]

    To the showrunner's "don't care" attitude:

    And one of the big problems:

    I also like that he's taking apart Terry Matalas' nonsensical interviews and Tweets multiple times.


    One thing Dan Murrell points out, something I had not really considered, is that Picard S2 contradicts the message of "The Bonding".
    [​IMG]

    "The Bonding" was the first TNG episode written by Ronald D. Moore.
    It reminds me of how "Star Trek Insurrection" contradicts "Journey's End".
    "Journey's End" is coincidentally another episode written by Ronald D. Moore.


    Dan Murrell is a true Star Trek fan with a deep understanding and knowledge of TNG. He previously worked for Screen Junkies and wrote the "Honest Trailers - Star Trek: The Next Generation".
    He also has a weekly show where he analyses box office numbers. The show is called "Charts with Dan".
     
  20. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    While I think PIC Season 2 was weaker than Season 1, my opinion of the first season is so high that even a weaker second season is still pretty good.

    IMO, Picard Season 3 doesn't need to redeem Season 2, it just needs to give the TNG crew a better send-off than Nemesis. And I'm not going to listen to any Revisionists who'll suddenly say NEM was a good send-off.