Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x10 - "The Last Generation"

[Nerys Myk]

"if earth falls, everything falls" clearly Earth is a US-style hegemonic power in the Federation.

 

[cooleddie74]

I hate woke Klingon politics.

 

[Belz...]

There was a Constitution class ship at Wolf 359, they used the Enterprises blown up saucer from Star Trek 3.

I've already addressed this.

 

[Scionz]

No, it hasn't been said what happened to it in canon, just that they can't use it for some reason.

It came up on Twitter yesterday, but the CG artist behind Picard's Enterprise-D design put the Enterprise-E's Conference Room Ship-Trophy case in the rebuilt Enterprise D's conference room, instead of the Season 3-7 wall or the Season 1-2 gold ship display. He responded. He got caught.

Frankly, I think Geordi was making an improvement to a museum ship in this case, rather than a 1:1 restoration. He could have just made it on its own... it's a trophy case. But what if he took it from the actual 1701-E?
https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1649488170399199238

 

[Nerys Myk]

You say that but if you go to the Discovery threads and say this doesn’t match with continuity, you get attacked by people saying it doesn’t matter.
You can’t have it both ways.

You lost me.
Continuity? Yeah it matters in the sense it forms a basic framework. But fiction is mutable, DISCO additions to continuity matter, until they don't. Same for all the shows. Few of the shows, including DISCO have any egregious violations of continuity.

 

[vulcancicada]

Why is it whenever the show writers don’t address every possible contingency and what-if scenario it suddenly becomes a plot hole??

“I really wanted Italian food for dinner but nothing was available”

“wait you could have gotten Chef Bogarde!! Fucking plot holes”

I just meant that they needed the borg to get out easily to create suspense. Whole episode was lazy writing, whether termed a plot hole or not, but that's just my opinion, which I am pretty sure I'm allowed to have. Of course the baby borgs were going to get out...

 

[thribs]

You lost me.
Continuity? Yeah it matters in the sense it forms a basic framework. But fiction is mutable, DISCO additions to continuity matter, until they don't. Same for all the shows. Few of the shows, including DISCO have any egregious violations of continuity.

I’m talking about the things that go against established canon. You explain why here and people just attack you.
TrekBBS can be a very stubborn place sometimes.

 

[Racefuel]

No one said that someone isn’t allowed an opinion, just that just because you thought of one particular angle or solution that the writers didn’t present in a 58 minute episode doesn’t necessarily make it a plot hole

 

[vulcancicada]

No one said that someone isn’t allowed an opinion, just that just because you thought of one particular angle or solution that the writers didn’t present in a 58 minute episode doesn’t necessarily make it a plot hole

Okay, I didn't like it, whatever you want to call it. Not a big deal.

 

[Racefuel]

Fair enough

 

[Nerys Myk]

I’m talking about the things that go against established canon. You explain why here and people just attack you.
TrekBBS can be a very stubborn place sometimes.

Do they? Mostly it's just a simple back and forth. People can get entrenched in their ideas of what "established canon" is and not budge. But canon is really just everything Paramount wants it to be. The shows and the movies they produce and own. It's really that simple

 

[Scionz]

The fandom really has a history of certain arbitrarily determined memetic axioms that take root and never seem to go away. You can say this is the definition of fandom, especially among those motivated to have extended discussions in a forum like this. One other example is the vocal minority of fans who still insist DSC and SNW aren’t in the prime universe because of reasons….

Bingo.
You'd think Lower Decks would have hit the entire "strict canon" perspective with a barrage of Transphasic Torpedoes by this point, and yet here we are, somehow taking seriously perspective that it was wrong to rename the Titan-A to Enterprise-G.

To which I say...

"K."

 

[Nyotarules]

The only two times that Starfleet has been implied or said to have thousands of ships is in DS9's Dominion War arc and Discovery during the Klingon War.

Every other time Starfleet has been implied to have 500 ships at the most. In BOBW the gathering, and loss, of 40 ships seemed horrific (which it would be if that was 10% of Starfleet wiped out in a single fight) and Picard had to dragnet repair yards and such for the Redemption fleet

With 309 ships present at Frontier day that is nearly 2/3rds of the fleet, which does constitute the bulk.

Yep, definitely silly

 

[XCV330]

TrekBBS can be a very stubborn place sometimes.

 

[Tuskin38]

"if earth falls, everything falls" clearly Earth is a US-style hegemonic power in the Federation.

Weyoun thought the same thing DS9.
He believed any meaningful resistance would start there and suggested wiping out the population.

 

[thribs]

Do they? Mostly it's just a simple back and forth. People can get entrenched in their ideas of what "established canon" is and not budge. But canon is really just everything Paramount wants it to be. The shows and the movies they produce and own. It's really that simple

Maybe it’s the way I read it. I’m always imaging they are yelling it back.

 

[Deks]

Yeah but the Enterprise-E would've been over 30 years old at that point, and has seen quite a bit of action, from First Contact to Nemesis and Prodigy. So at least a case could be made for its retirement. I guess I just really, really like the Odyssey class.

Age of a ship doesn't matter if you refresh its infrastructure every few decades and keep it up to date with technological upgrades... it would essentially be kept as up to date with every upgrade cycle (which seems to be every 3 years or so - aka, internal upgrades - and infrastructure upgrades [refreshing the ship's superstructure and hull plates every 10 to 20 years or so - depending on how much stress they underwent).

With this, age of a starship doesn't matter. Design would also undergo changes after 50 or 100 years too... so there's that.

 

[Cortez]

@Racefuel , @Cortez , I'm so happy you found separate corners after that little fiasco around pp. 92-93. I was about to hand out some reply bans or worse. Let's stay separated from now on.


This, more so than some also questionable posts before it, is getting too personal.

Absolutely no problem for me to stay separated. Never has been an issue on my side, but I do apologize for responding to the other members remarks.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

"if earth falls, everything falls" clearly Earth is a US-style hegemonic power in the Federation.

Dont forget that Frontier Day was basically a parade of the tools of empire.

 

[Scionz]

Dont forget that Frontier Day was basically a parade of the tools of empire.

Wars often build empires.
Victory in the Dominion War, which also saw the Klingon's knocked on their ass for the next 25 years and the Romulan Supernova destroying that rival power pretty much clears the field for the Federation for most of the known Alpha and Beta Quadrant. With the Borg gone, half the Delta Quadrant now has a power vacuum. And one of the leading voices in the Dominant power of a nice chunk of the Gamma Quadrant is a friend to the Federation that decades later, is still giving it a heads up.

Is it any surprise the Federation ruled the galaxy by the 30th century? Or that the founders had to move to another couple of homeworlds by the 32nd century? Or that in the 29th and 30th century, the Federations enemies felt that the only way to strike it was through time?

TOS wasn't just about exploring strange new worlds. It was about the birth of the first Galactic Empire since the Iconians or the T'Kon (whose extent was unknown, but presumably vast). Of course the Organians would contact the Federation again in the 35th century or so. By then, everyone will be Federation.