Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x10 - "The Last Generation"

[Haggis and tatties]

My view while watching this episode.....

 

[Yistaan]

On a serious note, this really goes to show how dialogue can make a cliched and aging plot seem new and exciting. This was really Trek's Rise of Skywalker. There's no other way to put it. The ending is just as nonsensical (since when do Borg just rip themselves out of the collective like Jack does?) and it falls back on reusing previous tried and true villains (Borg Queen here, Palpatine in ROS).

But where ROS had lines like "Somehow Palpatine has returned" and "They fly now? They fly now", we get seemingly much deeper and character informing dialogue in Trek. However, it's really just an illusion as the story is just as shallow as that in the sequel trilogy.

Simply put, Picard is NOT Trek's Andor, despite the obvious lofty intentions when the show initially premiered. It's basically the sequel trilogy done better.

 

[Racefuel]

Can we please not have real world political shitflinging in a thread already filled with hyperbolic shitflinging as is?

 

[Unicron]

I think they are implying that the virus affects those going through adolescent neurological development. From about the teens to as last as the mid twenties, the brain starts to become more efficient and more mature, though not without more probablematic things like risk taking. Synaptic pruning is one of the processes by which seldom used pathways are discontinued and more regularly used are strengthened.

It still seems very silly to me as a plot point, though, because it doesn't jive with how we've seen Borg assimilation work in every other series. Picard was much older than that when he was assimilated as Locutus, so what purpose would it serve if the Borg could assimilate everyone via the corrupted transporters? Obviously, a good answer is plot so we have heroes left. But the idea that the queen simply couldn't cast the net that broadly makes a bit of sense to me.

YMMV of course, but it's one plot aspect I feel didn't really worked for me. It's like how TNG's "The Pegasus" established a treaty ban on the Federation developing cloaking technology, without providing better detail on why that ban benefited them or how the Romulans expected to enforce it if Federation policy changed or branches of Starfleet decided to keep research going clandestinely. The Defiant used its cloak pretty routinely on DS9 with little consequence, even after several occasions where it was commandeered by hostile groups like the Maquis and the Dominion. The Romulans didn't bother to keep a liaison officer on board after "The Search."

I don't doubt that Pressman's group was wrong to violate the treaty, by any means, but I think he also genuinely believed that the advantages of stealth via cloaking were an avenue that seemed silly to ignore. And I wish the episode had clarified that a bit more, personally.

 

[fireproof78]

Simply put, Picard is NOT Trek's Andor, despite the obvious lofty intentions when the show initially premiered. It's basically the sequel trilogy done better.

Which is good enough. This is not meant as some high art piece, but a love song to the familial themes from TNG. It's not claiming to be anything different.

 

[Sci]

IMO - In the end, Terry Matalas didn't stick the landing for me. It was INCREDEBLY nostalgic, and that was okay; but sorry, the idea that the original Borg have been dead/dying since the end of Star Trek: First Contact;

No, the original Collective has been dying since Future!Janeway deployed her neurolytic pathogen against them in "Endgame, Part II," set in 2378.

and the Borg Queen took 30+ years to get her hands on Jack;

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't buy that she even knew Jack existed until some time after PIC S1. It would have been entirely too easy for Jack and Jean-Luc both to have been abducted years earlier. Nah -- she only figured out Jack existed and carried the potential to channel a control signal for her within the last two years.

and effectively just played with Jean-Luc Picard like a mouse and didn't just take them ALL out when they became a threat...

They made it pretty clear that Borg ship was barely holding itself together transmitting the control signal. The crew was almost all dead. This is the one time it actually made sense that the Borg would immediately kill all intruders.

And yeah, exactly what were the Changelings getting out of all this that made it worth it to them. Yeah Vadic might have wanted revenge, but you'd think the lot of them would want something more. Hell, I still have no clue why she (Vadic) supposedly hated Picard so much.

Well, if you don't understand why they hated the Federation, then you weren't paying attention. That was made very clear earlier this season.

A better question is, what did Vadic and her rogue Changelings think would happen once the Borg assimilated/destroyed the Federation? Did they really believe the Queen would agree to leave the Dominion in peace? Because that's incredibly stupid if she did.

But my point: She (Jeri Ryan)still doesn't have the draw/star power to be a Lead for a series of this type;

I absolutely disagree. Ryan's performance as Seven of Nine on VOY still stands out almost a quarter-century later because her power and range as an actor transcends both the horrible costume they had her in and the generally mediocre writing the series producers engendered. Seven of Nine is one of the most beloved characters in all of Star Trek, and Jeri Ryan has at least as much star power as Anton Mount and Sonequa Martin-Green. She could 100% carry the lead on a Star Trek series.

The better question is whether or not the economics of the streaming business will allow for the production of a Seven-led spinoff.

And to this day, I think the best 'new' character (and especially his intro) was Elnor. but said character was underused in S1 - Sloppily used in S2 (and yeah, if they could work a Romulan in as a Gary 7/TOS S2 Assignment Earth type 'Supervisor' (of course we know now it's not an alien race doing this but rather a godlike Wesley Crusher); they could have worked Elnor in more than just using him as some 2 minute 'combat hologram'.

Agreed. PIC S2 did Elnor, Agnes, Soji, and Cris dirty.

And yeah, guess Terry Matalas even killed him off if her was still on the USS Excelsior when the Borg blew it up <--- WTG Terry Matalas; hell Raffi and 70f9 never mention him AT ALL in PICARD S3.

I'm sure he wasn't aboard and is still out there somewhere. But yeah, in my ideal world, a Romulan Free State fleet would have arrived to defend Earth, led by Elnor.

 

[Yistaan]

I'm sure he wasn't aboard and is still out there somewhere. But yeah, in my ideal world, a Romulan Free State fleet would have arrived to defend Earth, led by Elnor.

The lack of any mention of non-Fed allies (despite Worf personally knowing two high ranking politicians, Chancellor Martok and Grand Nagus Rom) has been problematic all season. And both of those guys probably wouldn't have had to be asked twice the moment "changeling" was uttered, especially Martok.

 

[The Lonely Man]

First post on here in many years.

I loved Picard, especially the last few episodes. I've read all the criticisms about it being fan service and you know what ?
I don't care. I am a fan.
Seeing the crew back together again on the bridge of The Enterprise D with Picard finally acting like Picard again had me close to tears.
It's one last hurrah from the old gang whilst planting the seeds of possibilities with Captain Seven.

Everyone to their own but any fan of Star Trek who didn't enjoy this season... well, I'm not really sure what you were looking for.

 

[Sci]

And in that comparison we're not much different.

False.

The American health care system killed my mother. You don't know what you're talking about.

Simply put, Picard is NOT Trek's Andor, despite the obvious lofty intentions when the show initially premiered. It's basically the sequel trilogy done better.

Well, I think PIC S1 is Star Trek's equivalent to Andor, but yeah PIC S3 is its equivalent to Rise of Skywalker.

It still seems very silly to me as a plot point, though, because it doesn't jive with how we've seen Borg assimilation work in every other series.

I think it's just the limitation of using the particular type of technology instead of standard assimilation techniques.

 

[fireproof78]

Everyone to their own but any fan of Star Trek who didn't enjoy this season... well, I'm not really sure what you were looking for.

Something beyond TNG. Almost got it.

For now, this was satisfactory.

The lack of any mention of non-Fed allies (despite Worf personally knowing two high ranking politicians, Chancellor Martok and Grand Nagus Rom) has been problematic all season. And both of those guys probably wouldn't have had to be asked twice the moment "changeling" was uttered, especially Martok.

Unfortunately, as much as I would love it, they are not connected to Picard in the same way.

 

[Racefuel]

Just because fans have the time to devote countless hours to spaghetti string levels of interwoven plots where each moment has been carefully addressed does NOT mean the same can be said for the production staff. The reason why non-federation powers weren't mentioned or factored in or considered is because that wasn't the axis of the plot and wasn't really a necessary factor in the grand scheme of things.

Time is money, and money was short on this season, much less than S1 and S2.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Remember that one Enterprise from a parallel timeline where the Borg had defeated the Federation in the TNG episode "Parallels"? I've wanted a show or movie about that particular parallel timeline. They actually made a comic book series about it back in the 90s but it wasn't really all that great tbh.

The comic series Outer Light was terrible. Some storylines should be left alone.

 

[Tomalak]

On a serious note, this really goes to show how dialogue can make a cliched and aging plot seem new and exciting. This was really Trek's Rise of Skywalker. There's no other way to put it. The ending is just as nonsensical (since when do Borg just rip themselves out of the collective like Jack does?) and it falls back on reusing previous tried and true villains (Borg Queen here, Palpatine in ROS).

But where ROS had lines like "Somehow Palpatine has returned" and "They fly now? They fly now", we get seemingly much deeper and character informing dialogue in Trek. However, it's really just an illusion as the story is just as shallow as that in the sequel trilogy.

Simply put, Picard is NOT Trek's Andor, despite the obvious lofty intentions when the show initially premiered. It's basically the sequel trilogy done better.

I don't disagree with this, but equally I don't think it's a bad thing.

One of the things that has distinguished modern Trek is a lack of fan service. Discovery in the original Bryan Fuller conception was a conscious effort to reinvent Star Trek. Picard S1&2 were quite clearly not TNG S8 that many fans wanted and expected, SNW is extensively recasting and changing the hallowed TOS.

I don't want Star Trek to be like this forever - indeed it really needs to draw a line under the TNG era and move forward - but if you are going to do a "last roundup" for a much-loved set of characters, this is how you do it successfully.

But that's enough now. I'm not really eager for Star Trek: Legacy. I'm happy with how this episode ended things. If someone has a great idea for Captain Seven, I'll be interested to see it.

 

[fireproof78]

Just because fans have the time to devote countless hours to spaghetti string levels of interwoven plots where each moment has been carefully addressed does NOT mean the same can be said for the production staff. The reason why non-federation powers weren't mentioned or factored in or considered is because that wasn't the axis of the plot and wasn't really a necessary factor in the grand scheme of things.

Time is money, and money was short on this season, much less than S1 and S2.

Indeed and if it takes too much time to read the audience in to the situation. These characters are not essential and so they moved on from the those connections to focus on Picard connections. And, i don't think that was an accident but very much the intention of the scene.

I don't want Star Trek to be like this forever - indeed it really needs to draw a line under the TNG era and move forward - but if you are going to do a "last roundup" for a much-loved set of characters, this is how you do it successfully.

As last round ups go this is probably the most serviceable, if very much leaning on the nostalgia factors more heavily at the end.

 

[El Maestro]

On a serious note, this really goes to show how dialogue can make a cliched and aging plot seem new and exciting. This was really Trek's Rise of Skywalker. There's no other way to put it. The ending is just as nonsensical (since when do Borg just rip themselves out of the collective like Jack does?) and it falls back on reusing previous tried and true villains (Borg Queen here, Palpatine in ROS).

But where ROS had lines like "Somehow Palpatine has returned" and "They fly now? They fly now", we get seemingly much deeper and character informing dialogue in Trek. However, it's really just an illusion as the story is just as shallow as that in the sequel trilogy.

Simply put, Picard is NOT Trek's Andor, despite the obvious lofty intentions when the show initially premiered. It's basically the sequel trilogy done better.

The Borg returning and Palpatine returning are not even in the same universe of plot contrivance. Also what Jack was able to do makes a lot of sense when you consider that the Borg at that moment are badly weakened and not even close to being as powerful as they were. The queen was cannibalizing drones! You could argue that she would devote whatever scant resources she had to controlling Jack but it was obvious that she had too many plates spinning and was in a very bad way. This is something that actually worked...it makes perfect sense that after VOY this what the Borg would be.

You could certainly argue the semantics and specifics of the convoluted plot, the changelings, etc...but the Borg stuff is not all problematic for me.

 

[Sci]

Just because fans have the time to devote countless hours to spaghetti string levels of interwoven plots where each moment has been carefully addressed does NOT mean the same can be said for the production staff. The reason why non-federation powers weren't mentioned or factored in or considered is because that wasn't the axis of the plot and wasn't really a necessary factor in the grand scheme of things.

Time is money, and money was short on this season, much less than S1 and S2.

Yeah, it's fair to point out that this season had a more limited budget in some ways because of how expensive the TNG cast are. That's why really the sets in PIC S3 are almost all standing sets -- the Titan, the Shrike, Cheateau Picard, and Ten Forward Bar in Los Angeles. The only sets I can remember that were specially constructed for their episodes are the Eleos, the Borg set, and the Enterprise-D bridge -- which itself probably cost a goddamn fortune.

 

[El Maestro]

Yeah, it's fair to point out that this season had a more limited budget in some ways because of how expensive the TNG cast are. That's why really the sets in PIC S3 are almost all standing sets -- the Titan, the Shrike, Cheateau Picard, and Ten Forward Bar in Los Angeles. The only sets I can remember that were specially constructed for their episodes are the Eleos, the Borg set, and the Enterprise-D bridge -- which itself probably cost a goddamn fortune.

Yep. All things considered I think the production used their resources wisely.

 

[dswynne1]

On a serious note, this really goes to show how dialogue can make a cliched and aging plot seem new and exciting. This was really Trek's Rise of Skywalker. There's no other way to put it. The ending is just as nonsensical (since when do Borg just rip themselves out of the collective like Jack does?) and it falls back on reusing previous tried and true villains (Borg Queen here, Palpatine in ROS).

But where ROS had lines like "Somehow Palpatine has returned" and "They fly now? They fly now", we get seemingly much deeper and character informing dialogue in Trek. However, it's really just an illusion as the story is just as shallow as that in the sequel trilogy.

Simply put, Picard is NOT Trek's Andor, despite the obvious lofty intentions when the show initially premiered. It's basically the sequel trilogy done better.

PIC, season 3, was NEVER intended to be Trek's ANDOR. In fact, it was more like THE BOOK OF BOBA FETT, but in a good way. And, as far as I am concerned, PIC, season 3, succeeded for being what it was designed to be: a serviceable story that managed to hit the right notes and cues, and was designed as a jumping off point for additional stories later, while redeeming NEM. And on that basis, I had fun watching it. Sorry that you took PIC way too seriously to enjoy the show as pop-corn fare. Maybe next time?

 

[Voltron64]

Ideal plot for Enterprise-G?: Borg Civil War. Delta Quadrant Remnant Collective vs Jurati Cooperative

 

[Yistaan]

The Borg returning and Palpatine returning are not even in the same universe of plot contrivance. Also what Jack was able to do makes a lot of sense when you consider that the Borg at that moment are badly weakened and not even close to being as powerful as they were. The queen was cannibalizing drones! You could argue that she would devote whatever scant resources she had to controlling Jack but it was obvious that she had too many plates spinning and was in a very bad way. This is something that actually worked...it makes perfect sense that after VOY this what the Borg would be.

You could certainly argue the semantics and specifics of the convoluted plot, the changelings, etc...but the Borg stuff is not all problematic for me.

There are of course in-universe explanations but the real world parallels of a "safe" villain being brought in for the grand finale still stand.