Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x10 - "The Last Generation"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Commander Richard, Apr 19, 2023.

?

Engage!

  1. 10 - Excellent!

    55.7%
  2. 9

    16.0%
  3. 8

    12.4%
  4. 7

    5.7%
  5. 6

    4.6%
  6. 5

    1.8%
  7. 4

    1.3%
  8. 3

    0.8%
  9. 2

    1.0%
  10. 1 - Terrible!

    0.8%
  1. El Maestro

    El Maestro Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's not favoritism. It's JLP and the ship most closely associated with the character taking on TNG's most intractable foe in a climactic battle to end the story that's been told in dribs and drabs for decades across two series and a movie. If it were La Sirena it would have been bizarre and anti-climactic. Even if it IS favoritism it's still pretty immaterial. The USS Enterprise (any version, any bloody A,B,C,D,E,F,G) and the protagonists therein doing cool stuff is the ur-essence of Star Trek. Using any ship other than the/an Enterprise in *this* episode, solving *this* problem, with *these* characters would be staggering creative malpractice. You may not be someone this applies to, but my feeling is that the fanbase in aggregate is at best indifferent to La Sirena. I can't even remember what it looks like and I watch these shows multiple times.
     
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  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That misses my point entirely but that's fine. The idea that it's the Enterprise and that is the most important thing pretty much proves to me that this is not logical but entirely emotional. And for my part I don't find a particular ship moving. So, this is not for me.

    And, yes, it is favoritism. The ENTERPRISE, with these characters, are favorites. Apparently to not use them is "malpractice." That's entirely favoritism. Fan based, but favoritism nonetheless. Again, I wish people would just be honest about why Season 3 works for them rather than couching it in technicalities.

    Enjoy the action. :beer:
     
  3. El Maestro

    El Maestro Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Your point seemed to be that use of the Enterprise in place of La Sirena is favoritism, and thus detracted from your enjoyment of the story. My argument in response is that what you describe as favoritism, fan-based or otherwise, is actually just normal story telling convention. What would be more "distracting" is some nobody pirate ship we learned about 10 minutes ago and spent 5 minutes on taking on the Borg.

    Finally, emotional resonance is one of the central goals of entertainment. It's not the only one, but it's a huge one. You seem to feel it is a negative. The most well-regarded and memorable entertainment properties ever created are such because at least in part (and a pretty large part) they resonate emotionally with audiences in one way or another. Emotion is what makes people invest time, money, and energy into the media they consume. How do people not understand this?
     
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  4. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You can have action and thoughtful episodes.

    I'll use VGR's "SCORPION" two-parter as an example. You start of with a teaser of two Borg cubes getting blown up by only 4 shots. (One of the shortest teasers ever, and possibly the most effective teaser sequence in the franchise.) You have Voyager coming upon Borg space. You get the tension. You get the danger. And you get the dilemma... should Janeway bargain with the Borg? (Personally, I think Chakotay was 100 percent right and Janeway was blinded by her desire to get home. Even considering making a deal with the Borg, who have killed and assimilated billions upon billions of people, shows she was obsessive in her view.) It was one of the best Janeway/Chakotay scenes in the entire show. And you get the battles with Species 8472.

    The franchise has many instances where the action meets the mind. So the two most certainly aren't mutually exclusive.
     
  5. dswynne1

    dswynne1 Captain Captain

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    Must be a DISCO fan who's been trolling these boards. LOL...

    Unfortunately, fandom will always have its "toxic" circles, just like "bob saget" and his ilk. Screw 'em. S3 of PIC was better than it ought to have been, which is why I give it a "solid" 9. Reason? The producers basically jettisoned the previous cast of characters, like Rios, Jirati, Elnor, Laris, etc. I LIKED them, and should have been a part of S3. In fact, in hindsight, ideally? S3 of PIC should have lead to, well, the events featured in S3 PIC, with the actual events of S3 of PIC being two stand-alone films. But, as they say, hindsight is 20/20, and at least the season ended on a good note.
     
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  6. El Maestro

    El Maestro Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well-stated and completely accurate.

    Now, just for fun, imagine that at some point a few episodes before Endgame the crew of the Voyager found some other random ship and engaged in the big confrontation with the Borg and made it back to the alpha quadrant in that ship. The last shot of the series is the Starfleet ships sailing toward Earth....and the random ship. How do we feel about the ending?
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, I don't think it is a negative. I want honesty as to why something works and another thing doesn't. To me, the La Sirena and the Enterprise-D are the same. They are ships, a means of conveyance. If they engage in "pew-pew" I'm going to judge it as such and it's effectiveness in the story. Unfortunately, the way the S3 finally was done was too close for me (emphasis added as to my subjective opinion) to Star Wars. It reminded me of that scene shot for shot at some points. That's distracting.

    I'm glad it works for you, and truly mean that. But, the comments are "Well, I just don't understand how people couldn't like it" and then I present my arguments as to why I found it distracting and am told "Well you just don't understand it." No, I get it. I just don't like it. That's all. I don't find emotions negative, nor do I find fan fascination necessarily a bad thing but I think it blinds people to liking things they normally wouldn't if it was another character/ship/location. It's the "screaming and clapping" over "R2-D2" in the Phantom Menance. And, I'm sorry, I don't do that. If I'm distracted in a story I'm going to say "I was distracted by this during a story."

    Mileage will vary.
    Sweet! The heroes won! Awesome!

    See also "Star Trek: Beyond."
     
  8. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I like the La Sirena, but it's good for a "Side Story".

    S1 of ST:PIC felt like ST:Picard Gaiden, a JLP side story.

    It's fine for that role, but it's not a "Hero Ship".

    Not like the USS Enterprise has been.

    I'm totally OK with the favoritism. I'm in favor of it and will admit to it.

    You also don't value the ships as some of us fans do, as Gene Roddenberry did.
    [​IMG]
    Some of us fans REALLY value the ships that we're on and the ones that we've gotten to know over the years.
    It's just as important to us as any of the actors.

    I know you don't care for ships, that's fine, you have your take; others of us "Ship Folk" value the ships alot more than you would.

    You treat it like a backdrop, we treat it like a cast member, with equal value to any of the TNG actors and their roles.

    It wouldn't feel right to us if the Enterprise-D wasn't there for the final battle. It's just as much a part of the crew.
     
  9. El Maestro

    El Maestro Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This is why I maintain that if things were better planned/executed S3's story would've been first. Get the band back together, pull out the E-D for the big climax, the heroes win, the E-D retires in grace....THEN we meet new characters, JLP is all "Starfleeted Out" and gets hooked up with Rios and meets everyone and we can then do the synth stuff, and even have the alt-universe jaunt to the past.
     
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  10. Citiprime

    Citiprime Captain Captain

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    The scene where Voyager is jumped by an armada of Borg cubes is great. When the viewscreen becomes full of cubes, the look of fear on Janeway's face is palpable.

    And then that becomes a "WTF?" once the cubes fly past Voyager. I still love the visual of Voyager struggling to keep its orientation, being pulled back and forth, by the wake of the cubes flying past.
     
  11. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The interesting thing is you are both right.

    There is favoritism, but that favoritism was born out of a love of the characters we followed for years. If we didn't care about the characters, this series would not have happened, let alone this season. For myself (and probably many others), the Enterprise herself is a character. Not having her when the rest of the band is back together would just feel wrong. It would be like the lead singer, lead guitar, and bassist all coming back, but not the drummer. Drummers, for the most part, tend to get sidelined in favor of the singer and lead guitar. But the drummer is a key component of the band. It just wouldn't be the same.

    And the Enterprise was the very first shot of TNG, and it was the very last. Those kind of memories evoke a lot of emotions, and that was what the season was going for. It was completely appropriate for her to be here again.

    There were some plot issues and a few things I didn't agree with or like. But the season accomplished exactly what it set out to do, so that might be a factor in why many people can just shrug off the issues and call it a win.
     
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Duly noted. I understand (head based) but definitely don't understand (emotion based.)
     
  13. El Maestro

    El Maestro Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yep, that is indeed a great shot...but if we're science nitpicking here ships don't create wake turbulence in space! I wouldn't change a thing though :D
     
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  14. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because you don't get attached to StarShips like the other fans do.
    You treat it like a interchange-able set piece.

    We don't.

    Each StarShip is unique, it has value, it has character to us.

    But you don't feel that way, that's fine. Everybody is different.
     
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  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No one is saying it's inappropriate. I'm simply questioning the reaction that "This Pew-Pew/Action VFX" is ok while another is not. And that's me. I'm an equal opportunity kind of a guy.
    Thanks for your approval.
     
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  16. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My major nitpick is that there shouldn't be "Gasoline Explosions" in space, but S3 was chock full of them.

    Making it look like the Borg was all loaded to the brim with petrol just to stay operational
     
  17. El Maestro

    El Maestro Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Haha!!! Very true....ST, SW, and lots of other properties take a lot of liberties with the incendiary potential potential of space vehicles!
     
  18. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You are absolutely right that it's a double standard. It shouldn't be, but there it is.

    Honestly, I did find it a bit jarring to have the Enterprise go through the cube like she did. It was straight out of RETURN OF THE JEDI.

    But I could still enjoy it because I have a deeper connection with her than the Millennium Falcon.

    It's not rational. It's emotional, which is what much of the season catered to.
     
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  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Thank you for articulating it so well. This is the honesty I prefer :)
     
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  20. Pubert

    Pubert Vice Admiral Admiral

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    When TNG first came put people were saying the Enterprise was turning and moving too fast. They were used to the tub in space that the original series and movies like wrath of khan showed. But the D was built a century later and is much more maneuverable. In Picard its explained by Geordi that even his daughter wouldn't be fast enough to maneuver the Enterprise but Data is android. As long as the ship is mechanically able to keep up with datas inputs it should be able to maneuver at high speeds.
     
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