Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x09 - "Võx"

[Racefuel]

That isn't a new concept.

Where in Star Trek was the biological modification and control concept of the Borg explored in anything more than a "DNA being rewritten" line by Crusher in one scene?

I've seen every single episode of Star Trek, multiple times, including every episode with the Borg or Borg related and at *no point whatsover* was that ever explored. The concept of down the line side effects from the "DNA being rewritten" was ignored after BOBW and like a lot of other plot points from shows..gets brushed aside for the monster/drama of the week episode.

If you want to scream about people pulling shit out of their ass for story points why don't you start with The Wrath of Khan and go from there.

 

[Captain Jollydark]

They could have spent more time. A lot more time. It was a moment 28 years in the making and correcting a very, very old wrong.

I know I shouldn't ask - but what "old wrong?"

 

[Anduinel]

oh, it’s been clear to me he was probably gonna die for a few weeks and that he die “taking the bullet” for someone. It’s just to do it in order to make Seven the Captain feels…eh…

maybe it will play better when I see it not still half asleep.

Ah, sorry, I meant his becoming a fan fave was expected. It's part of the reason a folks have been thinking he was going to die - emotional stakes without killing off one of the TNG vets.

 

[Captain Jollydark]

More importantly, where is Laris?

She's in cold storage until she's needed to help the man.

 

[Tomalak]

gotta think they didn’t expect Shaw to become a fan fav or it wouldn’t have played out that way.

He kind of disappeared in the last couple of episodes - I wondered if he was originally set to die earlier, but then got a reprieve until now.

His sacrifice was quite heavily signposted in his Jaws speech earlier in the season, but the way he's been built up in the media around this season I thought he'd survive.

He may yet.

 

[firehawk12]

I don't like being made to feel dead inside by one of my favorite series. But if nostalgia is all people want then I guess they got what they wanted. I'm one of the few who loved S1 because it did new things with old characters.

I really enjoyed the earlier episodes of S3 but when it got to "let's all stand around reminiscing about the good old days while the universe is on the verge of destruction (yet again), I think I may not bother with next week. I'll just read spoilers and wait for SNW.

It's funny, I don't like story of S1 mostly for reason that it should have been Geordi's journey with Data, not Picard. But in retrospect I can at least admire it for doing something different and not being a live action Lower Decks... but serious instead of a parody.

 

[eschaton]

DS9 didn't have a new threat every season.While the Dominion War threatened all of the Federation, it was the same threat that developed over seasons.

This is my biggest gripe, consistently, with both Discovery and Picard.

The benefit of doing serialization IMHO is that you can do long-form plot and character arcs. Don't have the ideas to fill out an episode in season 5? Call back to a plot in Season 2, and develop it further! Think of the character growth someone like Nog showed across all of DS9.

But both Discovery and Picard basically press the reset button at the end of every season. Not only is there an artificial, self-contained crisis which is somehow 100% resolved in the finale, the hanging character threads aren't even expanded upon.

Witness the great disrespect they've given Raffi and Seven's relationship across Picard. They start holding hands at the end of Season 1, break up off camera between Seasons 1 and 2, slowly reconcile across season 2, and then break up off camera again between Seasons 2 and 3. The show should have used their relationship as a baseline element of the season, and worked it in, but instead it treated them like plot marionettes, hence it's irrelevant.

Picard's relationship with Laris is another example. Zaban dies off camera between Seasons 1 and 2 so they can have romantic tension (another case of the new showrunners having entirely new ideas). The whole of Season 2 was, if it was about anything, getting Picard to be open to a relationship with Laris, who is sidelined after a single scene in Episode 1! I can see how Picard's girlfriend would be hard to integrate into the season, and it's been like a week, but it would have been nice to have him at least send her a message or something? At least he hasn't been trying to get back with Beverly I suppose.

 

[fireproof78]

100%. I have been super critical of this season and certainly this episode, I (1) have found some enjoyment in it otherwise I wouldn’t be here and (2) realize that my opinion is my subjective viewpoint based upon my feelings around Star Trek. Nothing more. Nothing less. Those who feel their opinions (because that’s all that this is is discussing our opinions) are objective have a pretty high opinion of themselves.

Well, to quote an old Greek philosopher, "Man is the measure of all things." More often than not that measurement is based around our beliefs, and values, and what we think "Star Trek" should* be. The closer truth in reality is that Star Trek has been a wide variety things and will continue to be.

 

[Campe]

Well, to quote an old Greek philosopher, "Man is the measure of all things." More often than not that measurement is based around our beliefs, and values, and what we think "Star Trek" should* be. The closer truth in reality is that Star Trek has been a wide variety things and will continue to be.

Or as I say a lot on this BBS, “Star Trek is different things to different people.”

 

[fireproof78]

If you want to scream about people pulling shit out of their ass for story points why don't you start with The Wrath of Khan and go from there.

This. If people are going to complain about non Trek fans writing Trek, and pulling shit out of their asses in terms of writing then please just go back and be consistent!

 

[Tuskin38]

Well, to quote an old Greek philosopher, "Man is the measure of all things."

Oh is that where the TNG episode got its name.

 

[Racefuel]

I

DS9 didn't have a new threat every season.While the Dominion War threatened all of the Federation, it was the same threat that developed over seasons.

Yes, they did.

The early Seasons had the tensions and conflict with the Cardassians, then the Maquis, then the Klingon War, then the Dominion. The Dominion threat started as early as Season 2.
Every single season had some form of threat or conflict that overarched.

 

[bob saget]

Well, to quote an old Greek philosopher, "Man is the measure of all things." More often than not that measurement is based around our beliefs, and values, and what we think "Star Trek" should* be. The closer truth in reality is that Star Trek has been a wide variety things and will continue to be.

The reality is that it's going to be one thing until it goes public domain: crap.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

The reality is that it's going to be one thing until it goes public domain: crap.

So why have you kept watching?

 

[Tomalak]

This is my biggest gripe, consistently, with both Discovery and Picard.

The benefit of doing serialization IMHO is that you can do long-form plot and character arcs. Don't have the ideas to fill out an episode in season 5? Call back to a plot in Season 2, and develop it further! Think of the character growth someone like Nog showed across all of DS9.

But both Discovery and Picard basically press the reset button at the end of every season. Not only is there an artificial, self-contained crisis which is somehow 100% resolved in the finale, the hanging character threads aren't even expanded upon.

Witness the great disrespect they've given Raffi and Seven's relationship across Picard. They start holding hands at the end of Season 1, break up off camera between Seasons 1 and 2, slowly reconcile across season 2, and then break up off camera again between Seasons 2 and 3. The show should have used their relationship as a baseline element of the season, and worked it in, but instead it treated them like plot marionettes, hence it's irrelevant.

Picard's relationship with Laris is another example. Zaban dies off camera between Seasons 1 and 2 so they can have romantic tension (another case of the new showrunners having entirely new ideas). The whole of Season 2 was, if it was about anything, getting Picard to be open to a relationship with Laris, who is sidelined after a single scene in Episode 1! I can see how Picard's girlfriend would be hard to integrate into the season, and it's been like a week, but it would have been nice to have him at least send her a message or something? At least he hasn't been trying to get back with Beverly I suppose.

I think this season has been pretty openly trying to pretend the previous two never happened, apart from some lip service.

Obviously the first two seasons had a mixed reaction, but I wonder what we would have got if the TNG vets hadn't agreed to return, or if Stewart stuck to his guns on "no TNG 2.0".

 

[fireproof78]

The reality is that it's going to be one thing until it goes public domain: crap.

It's had crap before; it will have crap again.

This is Star Trek. It has it all. I'll not pretend this recent era is somehow more egregious than the past because it's not.

 

[trekfan_1]

Originality is a half myth. To a certain degree, nothing is original anymore. Even more true in the broadest sense. For me Im ok with something that's been told before in a different way if the story is engaging.

I see Star Trek like westerns. Fans of that genre didn't really care that it wasn't super original. I do realize not everyone would agree with and that's fine.

 

[fireproof78]

To a certain degree, nothing is orgilal anymore.

Hasn't been for a long time.

 

[eschaton]

Yes, they did.

The early Seasons had the tensions and conflict with the Cardassians, then the Maquis, then the Klingon War, then the Dominion. The Dominion threat started as early as Season 2.
Every single season had some form of threat or conflict that overarched.

Yeah, but they had a long-term plan for how it was going to work out. The Dominion was first established as a blink-and-you miss it reference in a Ferengi episode in the second season. They originally planned to ramp up the Dominion War earlier, but the decision to bring Michael Dorn onto the show in Season 4 meant they felt forced to focus that season on Klingon drama, which pushed back their plans for the Dominion War by roughly a season. But they had already a good idea of where they wanted to go across the entirety of the series pretty early on.

 

[The Commander]

"Nothing" is an overstatement; the writers will have broke the season at the start, including Matalas, and enabled the situation he sought for S3 - and that's the impression the S2 SFX interview presents, where he is credited with the season too. It's not a zero sum game

The overall story probably changed a lot during production (for budget and/or Covid reasons). And Terry said that many of his ideas for this season that were not executed (a more complex time travel plot for example). Season 2 was pretty much a mess.