Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x09 - "Hide and Seek"

[IMC Headquarters]

Episode 10 needs Lord of the Rings: Return of the King-level multiple resolutions:

Q's ultimate fate as supernova
Jurati's restoration
Raffi and Elnor reunion
Seven at peace
Laris recognizing Tallin
Picard and Laris fully embracing
Rios meeting Teresa's descendants
Kore walking on the beach at sunset
Renee making first contact

 

[Campe]

Now they just need to address Chakotay

Do they? Really?

 

[Lord Garth]

Janeway never ceases to disappoint.

Janeway: "Welcome aboard, Tuvix"

several days later

Holo-Doc: "We can bring back Neelix and Tuvok."

Janeway: "About that whole existence thing, Tuvix... "

----------------

Janeway: "Seven, I will resign my commission if they don't let you into The Academy."

several days later

SF Command: "Congratulations, ADMIRAL Janeway."

Janeway: "About that whole resignation thing, Seven ..."

She's an Admiral because she knows all the "right" moves. That's probably why she lasts as an Admiral, while Kirk and Picard didn't. Read into that what you will.

I think Sisko would've made a great Admiral. Also read into that what you will.

 

[eschaton]

Episode 10 needs Lord of the Rings: Return of the King-level multiple resolutions:

Q's ultimate fate as supernova
Jurati's restoration
Raffi and Elnor reunion
Seven at peace
Laris recognizing Tallin
Picard and Laris fully embracing
Rios meeting Teresa's descendants
Kore walking on the beach at sunset
Renee making first contact

Eh, I dunno. I do think it's likely to be a lower-octane denounment - this was clearly the big action piece. Likely it will involve the following.

• Picard & company stop Soong from interrupting Renee's launch. This almost certainly will involve Kore. Probably involves downtime Guinan, and may involve Wells. The other Renee has to die somehow, whoever she is.
• Q has a scene with Picard where he explains the lesson that needed to be learned (I think we already have the lesson, TBH - face down your fears, and don't believe in monsters)
• They bump back into the "present" and make peace with the Jurati-fied Borg.
• Picard has some sort of resolution of things with Laris

 

[gweeps]

You need both timelines for consistency since Picard and crew timetravelled from the confederation timeline.

And Q merged their consciousnesses into the altered timeline, so their alternate versions probably need to be swapped back.

 

[brandnewfan]

Generally, anything above a 5 means leaning in a positive direction, and anything below a 5 means leaning in a negative direction. So, "It's okay, I give it a 3" sounds odd. It throws people off. It's like a movie critic saying "Not bad, I give it one star!"

Thank you for the mansplain.

Anyway, it wasn't a great episode but it didn't quite suck THAT bad. So it wasn't a 1 or a 2, for me, but it wasn't a 4 or a 5 either.

 

[gweeps]

Did everyone just miss that conversation about him being away at school in the first few episodes?

I did. So much exposition this season.

 

[Sparky]

- The two Renées: Tallinn will take the place of the Renee who dies and die in her place to protect her? One of the Renées could still become the BQ, what with the "look up"

I think it's more literal than that. I think it means that both timelines have to happen, Renee literally has to simultaneously live *and* die.

My guess is that the Jurati Borg stay in the Confederation timeline for the next few hundred years as to not alter the Prime history that we know. They spend those years helping the races that have been decimated by the rise of the Confederation. Eventually the Confederation gets strong enough to defeat them, and now has them on the ropes and on the run, so they open up the rip in Space-time to escape, knowing that this whole chain of events will lead to a Picard that will help them.

Now, I hadn't thought of the Renee as BQ before, but if Renee has to "die" for the Confederation timeline to happen, it's certainly not a large stretch for that version to end up with the Jurati Borg who stay in that timeline.

 

[eschaton]

I think it's more literal than that. I think it means that both timelines have to happen, Renee literally has to simultaneously live *and* die.

My guess is that the Jurati Borg stay in the Confederation timeline for the next few hundred years as to not alter the Prime history that we know. They spend those years helping the races that have been decimated by the rise of the Confederation. Eventually the Confederation gets strong enough to defeat them, and now has them on the ropes and on the run, so they open up the rip in Space-time to escape, knowing that this whole chain of events will lead to a Picard that will help them.

Now, I hadn't thought of the Renee as BQ before, but if Renee has to "die" for the Confederation timeline to happen, it's certainly not a large stretch for that version to end up with the Jurati Borg who stay in that timeline.

This makes logical sense, but there's no way for the characters - who only inhabit a single timeline - to split into two. Plus if alternate universes split off with each decision made, logically speaking every possible success and failure must take place. So there's no possible agency that the individual characters can have, since both outcomes are certain.

 

[Campe]

I think it's more literal than that. I think it means that both timelines have to happen, Renee literally has to simultaneously live *and* die.

I hate temporal mechanics.

 

[SeamusShameless]

While I would love to see Seven captain the Stargazer (I would definitely watch a Seven-Stargazer spin off!), I am not sure it would make sense since Seven is not even in Starfleet. To captain a starship, you have to rise through the ranks of Starfleet. It normally takes years. It would be very unrealistic for Starfleet to accept Seven into Starfleet at the rank commensurate with the captain of a starship.

To be fair, we don't know how they get back to the 25th century. They may have to get back the long way round. The versions we've been following continue in the 21st century and live out their lives, and then we pick up with the new versions in 2401. She may have had a long career in Starfleet when we meet back up with them.

 

[Gov Kodos]

This makes logical sense, but there's no way for the characters - who only inhabit a single timeline - to split into two. Plus if alternate universes split off with each decision made, logically speaking every possible success and failure must take place. So there's no possible agency that the individual characters can have, since both outcomes are certain.

Give her the Gom Jabbar test. The Qowat Milat have got to have something like that somewhere.

 

[Romulan_spy]

To me, how Gene envisioned the future originally, Starflee's attitudes (or at least how they ended up portrayed in live action) towards AI and cybernetics never made sense to me.

Well, the real reason is that Trek, like a lot of scifi, is about exploring contemporary fears or hopes. When TOS was written in the 60's, there was very much a fear about computers and AI. There was very much this idea that computers or robots would take over. There is still that fear today. TOS used scifi to tackle those ideas of it's day. The OG Twilight Zone also tackled similar ideas. It had several episodes about mad computers or mad robots taking over.

 

[gvn2fly]

I'm trying to be fair in my words, since many people here aren't very objective and salivate over anything just because it's Star Trek, and they'll knock you down if you try to say the show isn't outstanding. In truth, I did find this one very middle of the road, but on the "lower end" of middle of the road...hence the 3 vote. It wasn't worthy of a 5, IMO. What's the true differences between a 2, 3, 4, etc anyway? And since we're policing people's votes, anyone voting anything above a 6 for this episode (or any episode after the first two stellar episodes this season) are probably very easy to entertain. Not trying to be mean, but since you brought it up

It's as if the writers had a very basic idea for the season, without a clear outline or objective in mind, and just threw things against a wall hoping something would stick. It's not my fault that much of it just isn't GREAT writing. I'm not going to say it's excellent just because it's new Star Trek and just because it's Jean-Luc or just to appease other fans. I was ecstatic to learn we'd be getting a new show with Picard, and I mostly enjoyed the first season. Is it some fandom crime to point out when the show takes a bad turn or churns out lazy writing?

And for the record, Move Along Home would be a 1, not a 3.

I think you laid out some points why you didn't like the episode and I don't think you'll get knocked down for that. I've criticized some episodes as well and have not been attacked. I think what's looked down upon here is just saying something like "this show sucks" or "this show is trash" People shouldn't attack you for saying you thought the writing was lazy or that the season wasn't planned out.

 

[thribs]

Do they? Really?

Of course! Everything must be addressed

 

[brandnewfan]

I think you laid out some points why you didn't like the episode and I don't think you'll get knocked down for that. I've criticized some episodes as well and have not been attacked. I think what's looked down upon here is just saying something like "this show sucks" or "this show is trash" People shouldn't attack you for saying you thought the writing was lazy or that the season wasn't planned out.

This was my original post:

This one was okay. Not great, but not terrible. Very middle of the road.

I'm excited for next week to see how it all concludes.

Not sure why that should spark any complaints.

 

[Campe]

Of course! Everything must be addressed

To quote the Borg Queen: “Bullshit.”

 

[Deks]

I think it was a goof by the prop department? Regardless, it's clearly not a real mobile emitter. We know from Season 1 that Rios's holos could appear anywhere in the ship without one, meaning Holo-Elnor didn't need it.



Butterflies dude. They could have easily conquered someone with more advanced tech. La Sirena has a cloaking device, after all, despite the Federation still not using them in the main timeline.

But making a cloaking device is a very different thing vs a mobile emitter.
For one thing, cloaking devices already existed for centuries in the UFP timeline. The UFP also developed its own phased cloak in secret during TNG, and I suspect that would have been fine right up until the point they started USING it.
Its one thing to develop technology in order to find countermeasures to it, but its something else if you are using it in your fleet.

The main reason why UFP never used cloaking technology is becasue of the Treaty of Algeron with the Romulans. Otherwise, nothing would have prevented UFP from making its own cloaking technology.

The mobile emitter was portrayed as 500 years more advanced than anything UFP had... though to be fair, how hard would it be to scale down a holo emitter to such a size?
We've seen UFP shrinking down complex technology in a span of a decade in the late 24th century. By the time of Nemesis, they already had a portable transporter which was smaller than a commbadge and could beam a person once.

It stands to reason that scaling down a single holo emitter in 20 odd years wouldn't be too troublesome.. so long as that's the only thing they scale down... with the rest of the casing used for battery storage.

So, even if the holo emitter was from 500 years in the future, I don't think making just a standalone portable emitter would have been a problem in the late 24th century... after all, you don't need to replicate it exactly... just get the basics down, and anything extra, you don't bother with.

 

[cooleddie74]

I guess the NX-01 refit is now canon?

The Doug Drexler model was on young Jean-Luc's table so I'm guessing this more or less makes the Drexler Refit a thing in-universe. Not gonna lie, it's kinda cool.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I think it was a goof by the prop department? Regardless, it's clearly not a real mobile emitter. We know from Season 1 that Rios's holos could appear anywhere in the ship without one, meaning Holo-Elnor didn't need it.

Butterflies dude. They could have easily conquered someone with more advanced tech. La Sirena has a cloaking device, after all, despite the Federation still not using them in the main timeline.

Not using cloaks isn't the same as not knowing how to build them. The UFP didn't use them due to the Treaty Of Algeron, but they still know how to make cloaks, even superior phasing cloaks.

Someone from the 29th century could still have come back to the Confederation era past and lost the mobile emitter, or the Confederation simply directed more resources towards that type of thing than the UFP ever did.