Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x04 - "Absolute Candor"

[Racefuel]

DSC and other Treks are largely internal dealings, rather than larger allegories. How the characters deal with trauma, and war, and pain is all a part of representing both the positive and negative aspects of humans.

For me, as much as I love a good allegory, I have moved in to a place where the characters mean a lot more to me. Kirk in Abrams Trek is probably the one I find the most interesting because of his struggle to find himself in the shadow of his dad and needing that mentor. Burnham struggles from being on the outside in so many different places, from Vulcan to Starfleet and really having to struggle with learning things are not as they seem.

So, less allegorical and far more character introspective. Which, I prefer. Mileage definitely varies.

The Kelvin Universe Kirk is one of my favorite characters in all of Star Trek.

He knows a little about his prime timeline counterpart...he knew his father, his father saw him rise to command the Enterprise..he was a "great man" as Nero told him..

And he's trying to find his own way while being in that shadow, even if only him and Prime Spock know about it.

 

[JD]

I realized I never commented on this one. Most of it's kind of a blur at this point, but I did like the introduction of Elnor, and it was interesting to see what effect the Federation giving up on the Romulan refugees had.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I'm finally able to articulate what bother me about Picard ripping off the "Romulan's Only" sign and stepping on it.

On the surface, it bugs me as the writer serving the plot more than the character. The whole point to place Picard in danger so Elnor could rescue him and join the cause. But it doesn't seem driven by Picard as a character. He's just stirring shit to stir it.

But here's the bigger problem for me. Picard is the great white imperialist inserting his morality and invading a galactic minorities' safe space.

 

[Gonzo]

I'm finally able to articulate what bother me about Picard ripping off the "Romulan's Only" sign and stepping on it.

On the surface, it bugs me as the writer serving the plot more than the character. The whole point to place Picard in danger so Elnor could rescue him and join the cause. But it doesn't seem driven by Picard as a character. He's just stirring shit to stir it.

But here's the bigger problem for me. Picard is the great white imperialist inserting his morality and invading a galactic minorities' safe space.

You could almost accuse him of being a " Cheeky Fecker".

 

[zenophite]

I'm finally able to articulate what bother me about Picard ripping off the "Romulan's Only" sign and stepping on it.

On the surface, it bugs me as the writer serving the plot more than the character. The whole point to place Picard in danger so Elnor could rescue him and join the cause. But it doesn't seem driven by Picard as a character. He's just stirring shit to stir it.

But here's the bigger problem for me. Picard is the great white imperialist inserting his morality and invading a galactic minorities' safe space.

Yeah, I didn't care for this scene either - it did seem out of place considering the whole story set up. I mean the Romulans are supposed to be the one's who got screwed by Federation, Starfleet and by extension Picard (i mean he has a guilt complex over it) And yet...he gets angry that they might feel resentment enough about it to not want outsiders (most likely Federation members) in their watering hole?

I mean I guess you could explain it away by saying that Picard was trying to draw Elnor to his cause but it simply wasn't conveyed that way IMO.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, I didn't care for this scene either - it did seem out of place considering the whole story set up. I mean the Romulans are supposed to be the one's who got screwed by Federation, Starfleet and by extension Picard (i mean he has a guilt complex over it) And yet...he gets angry that they might feel resentment enough about it to not want outsiders (most likely Federation members) in their watering hole?

Emotions are not rational.

It's not a great scene but I don't expect anger to be perfectly rational every single time when portrayed in the show.

 

[zenophite]

Emotions are not rational.

It's not a great scene but I don't expect anger to be perfectly rational every single time when portrayed in the show.

I think there is a difference between not being rational and something that feels like it doesn't quite follow from the setup of the story even from an emotional perspective. I think ultimately it simply wasn't clear whether it was Picard trying to get Elnor to his cause or simply Picard's sensibilities. For that matter who knows if all this is simply the effects of whatever disease he has... It was a minor thing to be sure but it did get me wondering why Picard would act so brazenly to agitate the Romulans in their own place being that he is essentially the face of the Federation's betrayal. Especially since he has a larger mission to accomplish.

 

[Longinus]

I think there is a difference between not being rational and something that feels like it doesn't quite follow from the setup of the story even from an emotional perspective. I think ultimately it simply wasn't clear whether it was Picard trying to get Elnor to his cause or simply Picard's sensibilities. For that matter who knows if all this is simply the effects of whatever disease he has... It was a minor thing to be sure but it did get me wondering why Picard would act so brazenly to agitate the Romulans in their own place being that he is essentially the face of the Federation's betrayal. Especially since he has a larger mission to accomplish.

Yeah, it was bit weird scene and I too was left wondering whether it was a ploy to get Elnor to help or whether he was just being a twat.

 

[Hythlodeus]

But here's the bigger problem for me. Picard is the great white imperialist inserting his morality and invading a galactic minorities' safe space.

That he always was.

 

[Phoenix219]

Pretty much has always been the case.

Shatner still has that twinkle in his eye, the charisma - it would have been so much fun seeing someone recruit an aging Admiral Kirk to go deal with fixing a mistake from his past, with him putting together a ragtag crew along the way. This entire show practically as is would be much improved with just a simple character swap, IMO - just change the vineyard into a horse farm.....

 

[fireproof78]

I think there is a difference between not being rational and something that feels like it doesn't quite follow from the setup of the story even from an emotional perspective. I think ultimately it simply wasn't clear whether it was Picard trying to get Elnor to his cause or simply Picard's sensibilities. For that matter who knows if all this is simply the effects of whatever disease he has... It was a minor thing to be sure but it did get me wondering why Picard would act so brazenly to agitate the Romulans in their own place being that he is essentially the face of the Federation's betrayal. Especially since he has a larger mission to accomplish.

Or a snarky way to enter since Picard is, in fact, not a Romulan.

 

[nutshell]

Yes, thats another example of where they try to make it seem like there is some need for his own redemption, but there was nothing more he could do. Yes, he could have been even more selfless and devoted his civilian years to hiring a ship at the Cantina, to slowly trickle out as many people as he could. But that would have been a drop in the bucket compared to 900 million. So he saved 100,000s or millions but thats not good enough? He should have died trying? That's not something you need redemption for.

Make him responsible for SOMETHING that went wrong. The supernova, the synth attack, the synth ban, the cancellation of the rescue mission. SOMETHING. Instead they make everything that went wrong the fault of everyone except him.

What went wrong is that more Romulan didn’t get saved because he gave up and quit. He could have done something even after quitting but didn’t.

 

[Danja]

Seven's arrival:

Ever the Overachiever.

 

[cooleddie74]

She always liked to make a dramatic entrance. In any decade.

 

[DaveyNY]

I'm finally able to articulate what bother me about Picard ripping off the "Romulan's Only" sign and stepping on it.

On the surface, it bugs me as the writer serving the plot more than the character. The whole point to place Picard in danger so Elnor could rescue him and join the cause. But it doesn't seem driven by Picard as a character. He's just stirring shit to stir it.

But here's the bigger problem for me. Picard is the great white imperialist inserting his morality and invading a galactic minorities' safe space.

Jean-Luc did it because he remembers when everybody got along and due to his background he sees it as an affront to everything he was trying to do back then.

He just completely misses the point that in the intervening years his High Moral Standard took a backseat to the hardships of everyday life for those people.
Something he has, up to this point, never had to deal with.

It was perfectly in line with where he is in his thinking at that point.

It became another in a long list of rude awakenings that just haven't sunk in yet.

I think meeting and talking to Seven is the point where Picard is finally getting the gist of how the rest of the local galaxy has had to deal with his incompetence.

 

[gaghyogi49]

Here are the observations for episode 4. All the hidden easter eggs and references to previous Trek: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/observations/pic_absolutecandor.htm
Feedback and comments always welcome!

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Another good one.

I noticed in the opening credits that Seven of Nine was supposed to show up. Then I got so fully into the story that I completely forgot it. Until she did.

I think meeting and talking to Seven is the point where Picard is finally getting the gist of how the rest of the local galaxy has had to deal with his incompetence.

Not quite sure "incompetence" is the right word here. Maybe "failure"?

 

[Crusher Disciple]

I love the idea of the Qowat Milat, but how could they manage to survive for so long if the Tal Shiar is as effective as they've been portrayed since TNG?

How did Elnor get his valise onto the ship? I assume he put it down when he was in the crowd and before he spoke up. He had the tan galong in his hand when they beamed, but once the rematerialized he was putting the sword back in his sheath. So where did that valaise go....?

And what does the poor kid have to pack? A second set of robes?

 

[Nyotarules]

And what does the poor kid have to pack? A second set of robes?

Romulan ale, since it is no longer illegal

 

[Nerys Myk]

I love the idea of the Qowat Milat, but how could they manage to survive for so long if the Tal Shiar is as effective as they've been portrayed since TNG?

Because they send any Tal Shiar agents they meet home in two boxes.