Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x12 - "Through the Valley of Shadows"

[DaveyNY]

The most implausible thing about any generation of Star Trek is the frequent encountering of aliens (humanoid and otherwise) who speak American English. All of the technological and scientific implausibilities pale by comparison.

(Yes, the occasional episode mentions a translation device, but this only serves to highlight the majority of such episodes that don't.)

?????
And since we are (mostly) English Speaking (and/or understanding) Humans, how would you suggest the story's be told?

Also,
At this point in our existence, wouldn't the "most implausible thing" actually be Meeting Aliens?
(Humanoid or otherwise)

 

[Borgminister]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but not only did Disco Pike yell out in horror and pain, so too did beep-beep Pike. Wonder if wheelchair bound, disfigured Pike saw himself as a strapping younger man in the past who just saw HIM as a physical vegetable and then decided well, it's off to Talos IV I go...

 

[BillJ]

Oh, but that's just a conceit of it being fiction, doncha know? That isn't nearly as bad as "time crystals" because...

One is essentially a shortcut for audiences. They don't want to sit through subtitles or explanations every episode. The other (like the Bajoran time orbs) comes across as silly. More fantasy than sci-fi.

Transporters, and their capabilities, are at the top of the list of improbabilities, for me. At the same time, it has become entwined in Trek storytelling, so I doubt it is going anywhere. Much like human/alien hybrids.

I guess it comes down to the fact that Trek has some silly legacy issues. The question is: do we want Trek to double-down on the silliness and be an "anything goes" type of universe? Or do we want it to try to be serious even with the legacy background issues? I honestly don't know which one is the right answer.

 

[fireproof78]

I guess it comes down to the fact that Trek has some silly legacy issues. The question is: do we want Trek to double-down on the silliness and be an "anything goes" type of universe? Or do we want it to try to be serious even with the legacy background issues? I honestly don't know which one is the right answer.

I guess, to me, Star Trek passed the "anything goes" mark with Q. Obviously, mileage will vary, but it strikes as incredibly strange that one form of nonsense is acceptable while others are lampooned without any effort to find a way to accept them in the larger Trek pantheon...

 

[gottacook]

Also, the transporter derserves to be topping the list of implausibilities.

The possibility of teleportation was mentioned in the 1960s outside of Star Trek, and there have been various experiments showing that the state of a particle (not the particle itself) can be teleported. At this time there's no possibility of teleportation of living things - see www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/09/big-step-quantum-teleportation-won-t-bring-us-any-closer-star-trek-here-s-why - but who's to say what will be implausible 100 years from now?

 

[BillJ]

Obviously, mileage will vary, but it strikes as incredibly strange that one form of nonsense is acceptable while others are lampooned without any effort to find a way to accept them in the larger Trek pantheon...

That is what I mean by legacy issues. The time crystals are an 800-pound gorilla in the room, not really because they are silly, but they break the universe. Everyone knows Boreth is sitting on something that can rearrange the universe, yet no one seems interested in them.

 

[gottacook]

Oh, but that's just a conceit of it being fiction, doncha know?

To be fair, that's a conceit of filmed fiction. Language barriers in SF stories and novels are dealt with in various ways, not just waved aside.

 

[Longinus]

If so, those objections seem few and far between regarding those concepts and their general acceptance.

Because those other things aired years ago! They were discussed when they were new, and there certainly were complaints about many of the items on that list.

 

[BillJ]

Because those other things aired years ago! They were discussed when they were new, and there certainly were complaints about many of the items on that list.

This. People have had many complaints over the years, the complaints about Discovery will wane as we move farther away from the series.

 

[fireproof78]

Because those other things aired years ago! They were discussed when they were new, and there certainly were complaints about many of the items on that list.

Then I missed it...sorry

 

[fireproof78]

That is what I mean by legacy issues. The time crystals are an 800-pound gorilla in the room, not really because they are silly, but they break the universe. Everyone knows Boreth is sitting on something that can rearrange the universe, yet no one seems interested in them.

As opposed to the Guardian of Forever?

 

[Alan Roi]

The possibility of teleportation was mentioned in the 1960s outside of Star Trek, and there have been various experiments showing that the state of a particle (not the particle itself) can be teleported. At this time there's no possibility of teleportation of living things - see www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/09/big-step-quantum-teleportation-won-t-bring-us-any-closer-star-trek-here-s-why - but who's to say what will be implausible 100 years from now?

They had a transporter/teleporter in the Buck Rogers serial. Teleportation in science fiction has been around since Edward Page Mitchel wrote about it in 1877.

 

[Alan Roi]

That is what I mean by legacy issues. The time crystals are an 800-pound gorilla in the room, not really because they are silly, but they break the universe. Everyone knows Boreth is sitting on something that can rearrange the universe, yet no one seems interested in them.

Who ever said nobody seems interested in them?

 

[BillJ]

As opposed to the Guardian of Forever?

Do you not know what 'legacy issues' mean? The Guardian was something created for a TV show trying to stay on the air from week-to-week. Not a billion dollar franchise with everyone concerned about how every 'i' is dotted and 't' is crossed.

Which is why I've always been in favor of a reboot vs. trying to cram a show inside the TOS (lack of) continuity.

 

[gottacook]

They had a transporter/teleporter in the Buck Rogers serial. Teleportation in science fiction has been around since Edward Page Mitchel wrote about it in 1877.

Instead of "outside of Star Trek" I should have said outside of fiction, as a real subject of investigation.

 

[BillJ]

Who ever said nobody seems interested in them?

I would say the fact that Boreth hasn't been leveled over and over again by armies trying to gain hold of them.

 

[Alan Roi]

Do you not know what 'legacy issues' mean? The Guardian was something created for a TV show trying to stay on the air from week-to-week. Not a billion dollar franchise with everyone concerned about how every 'i' is dotted and 't' is crossed.

Which is why I've always been in favor of a reboot vs. trying to cram a show inside the TOS (lack of) continuity.

As with any billtion dollar franchise the only people concerned about how every 'i' is dotted and 't' is crossed are the fringe who still think things like handwriting has outsized importance in this world.

 

[Alan Roi]

I would say the fact that Boreth hasn't been leveled over and over again by armies trying to gain hold of them.

You could say the same thing about our world and fissionable material.

 

[BillJ]

As with any billtion dollar franchise the only people concerned about how every 'i' is dotted and 't' is crossed are the fringe...

And the Discovery creators, obviously. As they are the ones that go out of their way to constantly tell us this all fits with TOS.

 

[Longinus]

The most implausible thing about any generation of Star Trek is the frequent encountering of aliens (humanoid and otherwise) who speak American English. This tendency goes all the way back to "The Corbomite Maneuver." All of the technological and scientific implausibilities listed above pale by comparison.

(Yes, the occasional episode mentions or shows a translation device, but this only serves to highlight the majority of such episodes that don't.)

It is is commonly used and known device, why would they keep constantly mentioning it? It just works. Granted, the UT often works in near magical capability and there are instances where it realistically couldn't have been used. Those things do bug me, but the general trend of not mentioning the device doesn't. Nor do the fact that aliens often converse with each other in English, where they should be using their own language. They're not really speaking English any more than ancient Romans in a period piece are, it is just not worthwhile to make long scenes in a language the audience doesn't understand, especially if that language is harsh sounding made up gibberish. It think the Klingon scenes in the last season proved that.

BTW, I absolutely loved the scene in Beyond where they showed the UT gradually getting better at translating the language. This is how I assumed it should semi-realistically work. (It shouldn't happen that fast, but it was a good way to depict it on the film.)

Also, considering that we already have primitive universal translators, the basic concept isn't that far fetched.

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