Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x04 - "An Obol for Charon"

[Nyotarules]

AH, but then you really didn't want to let it go, multiple posts later, did you?

Other people commented and I respond to their comments, I present your post as an example. Or were you expecting me to be a good ole girl and keep silent when my betters respond?

 

[Noname Given]

But that doesn't actually confirm that they are truly used as a food source.
It only confirms what the Kelpians have been led to believe.
All we see is that they are 'beamed'(??) away.
We don't actually see them being used AS food in the Prime Universe.
Nor is it obvious that that is true, based on how Burnham reacts to Emperor Georgieu offering her some in the MU.
Michael is aghast at such an act.
If the Kelpians were known as a food source, I'm pretty sure CaptainGeorgieu would have known that and conveyed it to Star Fleet and the Federation.
Wouldn't she?

^^^
The Federation probably does know, but in BOTH the 23rd and ESPECIALLY the 24th centuries, that doesn't mean they'll just decide to intervene. In the 23rd century; the Kelpians would have to have something the Fededration needs to make any interference worth it; and in the 24th century, who knows; they might just ask for a sample of Kelpian meat (IE trade with the Baul) to end hunger somewhere else. The 24th century Federation allowed the Cardassians to rape Bajor for 60+ years.

Bottom line: The Federation doesn't interfere unless they see a good reason to that makes sense to them.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

If the current situation of the Kelpiens is not natural - if it's actually engineered - a strong argument could be made the Prime Directive is not in force.

I also contend that it’s a Kelpian who, independent of his “knowledge of the Federation and stuff” figured out the lie his people were told.

Therefore, it wouldn’t violate the prime directive/ GO One if he tells his own people what he himself has discovered about the lie Kelpiens have been told by the Ba’ul.

 

[Nyotarules]

To wit, we're at a point where there's no reason for music to evolve beyond experimentation. And experimentation can only go so far, especially with something as subjective as music where people tend to fall back on what they know. And the I V vi IV songs aren't going anywhere any time soon.

In real life that is possible but in the Star Trek universe where humans experience a major, devastating, global nuclear war who knows what cultural impact that has on society? They make the decision to be different from their ancestors (people in our time and earlier) and see beyond racial, sexual, national, political and cultural differences and unite? That concept is way above our heads cos we are not there yet any time soon but interesting to speculate.

 

[dahj]

You're all watching what's basically a 50 year old show.

So what's so weird about something sticking around for just another 250 years?

 

[Kor]

Would somebody please explain to me or give me an example where the Kelpians have definitively been described as a food source in the Prime Timeline, because as far as I can tell, it was only in the Mirror Universe that it was confirmed.

It was implied in the Short Trek about Saru.

Kor

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

You're all watching what's basically a 50 year old show.

So what's so weird about something sticking around for just another 250 years?

I'll still watch Star Trek when I'm 250. Maybe by then the series will finally take place in the 25th century!

 

[CorporalClegg]

In real life that is possible but in the Star Trek universe where humans experience a major, devastating, global nuclear war who knows what cultural impact that has on society? They make the decision to be different from their ancestors (people in our time and earlier) and see beyond racial, sexual, national, political and cultural differences and unite? That concept is way above our heads cos we are not there yet any time soon but interesting to speculate.

But we've already seen a survivor of said war finding comfort in Roy Orbison and Steppenwolf.

 

[Tuskin38]

Or were you expecting me to be a good ole girl and keep silent when my betters respond?

No one was thinking that. Stop insinuating.

 

[Nyotarules]

You're all watching what's basically a 50 year old show.

So what's so weird about something sticking around for just another 250 years?

WW3 almost destroys all musical libraries, but in 2236 a David Richard Jones comes across old music with someone who shares the same name as his and passes it off as his own since copyright law no longer applies...

 

[Awesome Possum]

How do you know music in the 23rd century won't sound a lot like songs that are 300 years old?

Pro tip: it probably will.

There is a point at which an art form breaks beyond the confines of the zeitgeist. There's a growing number of musical anthropologists that believe it's about there. Because musical taste doesn't change for its own sake. It changes to keep up with socio and technological evolution. But we've near reached the point where it doesn't have to anymore.

Classical music isn't a product of artists of the 18th and 19th centuries, it was a product of the technology and social structures available to them at the time. The exact same can be said for the Beatles in the 60s, Bowie in the 70s, and Duran Duran in the 80s. But we've reached a point where musical instrument innovation has become mostly stagnant. And many believe that we're about there for digital applications. And - globably speaking - socio and political restrictions are much less impactful.

To wit, we're at a point where there's no reason for music to evolve beyond experimentation. And experimentation can only go so far, especially with something as subjective as music where people tend to fall back on what they know. And the I V vi IV songs aren't going anywhere any time soon.

The most interesting impact on music in Trek could be the introduction of different alien styles into Earth music, creating new style and new interpretations. How much new music is created by remixing something old and what could other species do with out music. It’s implied that this is happening already by having an alien opera of an Earth play. It would be interesting to hear a familiar song in an alien language played a different way than were used to. Defiance on SyFy already played with this.

 

[DaveyNY]

You are a member of a site where people discuss the minutest details of a 50 year old sci fi franchise...yeah I'm very petty

Details of which are usually discussed in a positive useful manner.

Other people commented and I respond to their comments, I give your posting as an example. Or were you expecting me to be a good ole girl and keep silent when my betters respond?

There comes a point when it's obvious to most folks, that what they are attempting to convey, goes pretty much against the grain of popular wisdom to the known world.

Then there are the ones that continue to bump heads, just because acknowledging they might be a bit amiss would deflate their psyche.
I'll leave it at that...

 

[Nyotarules]

Details of which are usually discussed in a positive useful manner.

There come a point when it's obvious to most folks, that what they are attempting to convey, goes pretty much against the grain of popular wisdom to the known world.

Then there are the ones that continue to bump heads, just because acknowledging they might be a bit amiss would deflate their psyche.
I'll leave it at that...

Please do since some of you are taking my question of why X character would like an old song as their favourite personally.

 

[Lord Garth]

In other news: "An Obol for Charon" showed us Number One!

I myself also dunk fries in hot sauce. I'm glad to see someone else do it.

 

[thribs]

How do you know music in the 23rd century won't sound a lot like songs that are 300 years old?

Pro tip: it probably will.

There is a point at which an art form breaks beyond the confines of the zeitgeist. There's a growing number of musical anthropologists that believe it's about there. Because musical taste doesn't change for its own sake. It changes to keep up with socio and technological evolution. But we've near reached the point where it doesn't have to anymore.

Classical music isn't a product of artists of the 18th and 19th centuries, it was a product of the technology and social structures available to them at the time. The exact same can be said for the Beatles in the 60s, Bowie in the 70s, and Duran Duran in the 80s. But we've reached a point where musical instrument innovation has become mostly stagnant. And many believe that we're about there for digital applications. And - globably speaking - socio and political restrictions are much less impactful.

To wit, we're at a point where there's no reason for music to evolve beyond experimentation. And experimentation can only go so far, especially with something as subjective as music where people tend to fall back on what they know. And the I V vi IV songs aren't going anywhere any time soon.

Whatever it is, it must be terrible for no one to play it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

10s of thousands of sustained massive Electromagnetic pulses globally for a few months.

No (unprotected) hard drive on the Earth wouldn't be wiped dry.

No more audio/video tapes, CDs or dvds either.

You know what would be perfectly fine?

Vinyl.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

The most interesting impact on music in Trek could be the introduction of different alien styles into Earth music, creating new style and new interpretations. How much new music is created by remixing something old and what could other species do with out music. It’s implied that this is happening already by having an alien opera of an Earth play. It would be interesting to hear a familiar song in an alien language played a different way than were used to. Defiance on SyFy already played with this.

And while not music, let's remember that Shakespeare is quite famous with the Klingons. In fact, it was originally Klingon ! Much like how our ancient Egyptians taught aliens the art of space travel and pyramid building. I would love to see a Klingon performance of Macbeth... as a Klingon-Broadway musical.

 

[Cyrus]

I love the show and I'm enjoying the hell out of this season, but it frustrates me that the episodes, maybe with the exception of "Brother" all seem really crammed and rushed story-wise. And they don't do a great job transitioning between the different plots within an episode.

I think this is why Kurtzman said (when comparing Discovery and Picard): Discovery is a bullet. Picard is a very contemplative.

I think they need to slow down the bullet a little bit, and improve the storytelling aspect.

 

[Guy Gardener]

When did Flint have warp?

He may have been Shakespeare.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Exactly, even music from the ENT era would be way old, over 100 years old and would be her great grand parents music. If I started singing White Cliffs of Dover by Vera Lynn (an English singer who is 101 years old) as my favourite song my peers would find that unusual and I'm over 50.

Tilly by her own admission was thought of as "unusual" by her peers. So it fits with who she is.