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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x15 - "Will You Take My Hand?"

Rate the episode...

  • 10 - A wonderful season finale!

    Votes: 89 26.2%
  • 9

    Votes: 51 15.0%
  • 8

    Votes: 64 18.8%
  • 7

    Votes: 46 13.5%
  • 6

    Votes: 18 5.3%
  • 5

    Votes: 24 7.1%
  • 4

    Votes: 15 4.4%
  • 3

    Votes: 10 2.9%
  • 2

    Votes: 7 2.1%
  • 1 - An awful season finale.

    Votes: 16 4.7%

  • Total voters
    340
I use to go in to an entertainment store frequently to get a sense of merchandising. I saw equal amounts in TOS and TNG. I have seen a similar balance at sites like Think Geek. Invariably, the TOS style items would be sold out and TNG would remain.

Yes, this is anecdotal, and no doubt others will state something opposite. I'm just saying that they make more TOS merchandise is not quite as accurate, or paints the complete picture :)

Here’s an anecdote, related, in sort of the opposite direction...or at least more complex.
I don’t really like TOS. It’s not my thing. Family members know I like Star Trek however, so I still own TOS merchandise, because they get it for me (and my son) at Xmas etc.
I have heard people shopping in Forbidden Planet in the old days, and ‘well, he likes Star Trek’ is more likely to result in TOS stuff being suggested, there’s more of it, it’s seen as the safe choice.
Now, that’s not much in the way of ‘tng era more popular’ but it is, I think, a part of why TOS shifts more.
Anecdote too, but like I said, I think it’s nuanced. The only thing I can tell you is KT doesn’t shift toys, didn’t bother with books, but becomes the default for fancy dress costumes by virtue of being cheapest.
 
While I agree with you that Trek is a greater universe than just TOS era, what a business needs to look for is a return on product that's out there. Like it or not, Trek can't be sustained in the open market, competing with the oversaturation of Star Wars and other Sci-Fi adventures on just the fans. If the money comes in from product bearing Kirk or Spock's likeness, more than Picard or Data, then they need to ensure a good return for the company.

Besides that, I know non-fans, just casual viewers, who like the feel of TOS era more than TNG. TOS has the look, feel and vibe people now are into (witness the 2017 Gucci campaign).

Plus I think that the TNG era had a lot more done within it than the TOS era on screen. It got fatigued and maybe even referring to it a lot would bring back that tiredness.

That Gucci campaign was terrible xD
 
Look, I've had a few drinks but stay with me here.

In the finale, Georgiou talked with Tilly about the jolly time they had subduing Betazed.

How could would it be if Georgiou's name was actually Imperial Majesty, Mother of the Fatherland, Overlord of Vulcan, Dominus of Kronos, Regina Andor, Heir to the Holy Rings of Betazed, Holder of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx Emperor Philippa Georgiou Augustus Iaponius Centarius


The writers missed a massive opportunity to make me giggle like a fanboy and I will never foget.
 
How could would it be if Georgiou's name was actually Imperial Majesty, Mother of the Fatherland, Overlord of Vulcan, Dominus of Kronos, Regina Andor, Heir to the Holy Rings of Betazed, Holder of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx Emperor Philippa Georgiou Augustus Iaponius Centarius
The Sacred Chalice of Rixx is an old clay pot with mold growing inside it.
 
Fair point. So not worth mentioning when your name and title is already like several hundred words long, perhaps?
For all we know about Georgiou, she might have made the exact same comment Troi had made whenever the Betazoids tried to get her to add their title to the list of her own... she might have even had the Chalice broken into shards just to spite them when they mentioned it too many times.
 
That Gucci campaign was terrible xD

It was GLORIOUS!

9e8b0849e50220fe8680702630a53aaa.jpg


This shit looks way more interesting that anything on Discovery.
 
For all we know about Georgiou, she might have made the exact same comment Troi had made whenever the Betazoids tried to get her to add their title to the list of her own... she might have even had the Chalice broken into shards just to spite them when they mentioned it too many times.

She may also use it to put Kelpian bones in when she's eaten all the meat off them.
 
Burnham was more than anxious. Everyone on the shenzhou bridge was anxious about the Klingons, but no one else attempted mutiny or went along with Burnhams mutiny attempt. Considering that Burnham goes from a model starfleet officer about be offered her own command before meeting the Klingons to the behaviour that leads her to mutiny after meeting the Klingons, it's clear that it was the act of encountering a Klingon that triggered a pretty severe and uncharacteristic (in Georgiou's assessment) emotional response in her.
Well, I've already posted why I interpreted this series of events as an unorthodox conclusion to a series of logical actions, i.e. seeking Sarek's counsel, etc.
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There's a saying I heard once that i'm going to paraphrase, which is that people only ask for advice when they want to hear that they are right. Burnham getting Sarek's advice was done in the hopes that this would be enough to convince Georgiou to fire on the klingons.
But how do you know this applies in this situation? I mean, how do you know it for a fact? Was it stated somewhere in this episode or sometime later?
By the time we get to the finale, Burnham has changed as a person. She says it herself in her confrontation with Cornwell. That she made a decision at the expense of her principles at the start of the war and that she was wrong. It's entirely possible that the Burnham we see in the first episode would have gone along with Cornwell's plan, but the Burnham of the finale is different. Yes, she may still distrust the Klingons and be afraid of them but that doen't mean she is willing to endorse a plan to wipe them all out. Burnham says to Ash it would be simpler if she could hate the Klingons, but she can't and all she sees around her on Qo'nos is people living their lives and she can't bring herself to wipe out a peoples home.
But you'd think that if she really had been suffering from some psych disability that robbed her of her rationality as you've claimed, that she would have taken advantage of Cornwell's plan to get rid of the Klingons forever. After all, she had Starfleet's blessings, so that would have covered her. She would have been a hero and maybe still get her commission back. Of course, she would have had to live with the guilt, but an irrational person would not be likely to think of future consequences Instead, Burnham does what a rational person and competent Starfleet officer would have done, refuse to commit genocide.
The scene I am talking about occurs when Burnham and Tyler come across the group of Klingons playing a game. Tyler decides to join in to try and get information, as he remembers that Voq was quite good at this particular game. Burnham's stay for a bit but is shown to be visibly very uncomfortable at the Klingons laughing and being raucous and leaves. Ash eventually finds her and asks why she left and Burnham then confesses what happened to her parents.
Right, I remember. Burnham still has sad memories of her parents death and carries some guilt. The raucous Klingons brought on those memories, but instead of doing something irrational like pulling her phase pistol and threatening or charging the Klingons, she does what a rational person would do, she separates herself from them and regains her composure. Also, consider that Burnham seemed to be cool with individual Klingons all during the season.

But here's the real issue with this debate; the producers have never confirmed that Burnham suffered from any psych disability as an adult. There isn't one piece of on screen dialogue that confirms it. When these writers (like most Trek writers) want us to know something important about a character, they leave no room for debate. MU Lorca, Voq/Tyler, Lorca's manipulation of Stamets, Lorca's hand in taking the ship into the MU, all of these things were open to debate for a time, but were eventually confirmed on screen one way or the other. The same is true of this PTSD thing. If it were really a part of Burnham's storyline, the writers would have confirmed it on screen.
 
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I think they were out of focus because they copy-and-paste the background characters, especially so in the upper stands. Most viewers would not have noticed, with their attention focused on the foreground characters.
What did stand out for me were the Andorians in the stands with identical hairdos, which had "cut and paste" all over it. :D

They didn't put the registry numbers on the bottom of the saucer
It certainly appears that way, and it's something I disliked when they omitted it in the JJ-verse too. The bottom of the saucer looks too unfinished without those underside markings. Hopefully will know for sure in Season 2 with some clearer shots -- though on this show, that may be wishful thinking. :D
 
Solid if unspectacular finale.

Glad MU Georgiou survives. Redemption arc exploration ahead?

Liked that Ash went with L'Rell. Though the Klingon side of things was too tidy & too trusting from Starfleet.

Market scenes were good. No blowback from a mutiny vs the Admiral. If a mild one. Ready for S2.
 
Finally watched the episode. Not the best season finale, but it was good enough and tied up loose ends.
Thought the Lorell unifying the houses was a bit rushed not well explained. It seemed too easy for warrior species that were about to attack be called off because she was holding a iPad with federation symbols. Perhaps they will elaborate it more in future episodes. Ash/Voq will live on in Klingon world. I wonder if Lorell will want him back.

Loved how Phillipa kung fu Lorell's ass in the brig.

The orion outpost scene was nicely done, from the twin phallic urination to the threesome action. MU Phillipa is everything the PU wasn't and they didnt hold anything back in showing it. Having her live on will make some interesting cameos in future episodes.

Tilly's salute to the emperor was hilarious.

Enterprise at the end was a nice teaser for the next episode. Who will play Spock and Pike? I like the fact they designed the Enterprise in the same modern theme, rather than rehashing the toy models of the 60's TOS like they did for DS9 episode.

As for the new DISCO captain, I wonder who will they cast. With Culbert gone, they will need to cast a medical officer too.

Can't wait for S2, but sounds like we wont see one until 2019?
 
Tried to make a comparison of Paris in Google Maps and the one in this episode

One thing I noticed (I even checked other screen caps) is that the right side of 'Palais de Chaillot' (?) is missing, even in other screen caps that show the area better, it's just gone. It might not be lit up, or is just obscured, but I can't find it.

discovery1x15_2106.png

unknown.png
 
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