Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x10 - "Despite Yourself"

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Or, since everything is a mirror of itself... EMPEROR SARU?!?

Of course, instead of "threat ganglia" he has the opposite "pacifist ganglia"

I doubt Saru even exists in the MU. If his "counterpart" ever turns up, it will probably be a brand new character - from the predator species which inhabits Saru's homeworld.

 

[cultcross]

Do all gay characters henceforth get plot-armor?

All? We've had two, and they've killed half. That's a standard trope which it's a shame Discovery entertained.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

However, nearly everything that involved Tyler was a big minus point for me. The only explanation for why he's not confined to quarters is MirrorLorca sees his own PTSD in him and relates. The brig scene was annoying in that nobody is ever on duty in there! And then the sickbay scene, well. Firstly, they didn't notice massive scarring from bone crushing on his 'thorough medical' the first time? And secondly, and most importantly, the Bury Your Gays trope on Star Trek, really? For Trek's first gay couple? In their first season? Suitably punished the gay couple for their sins, let's move on to the nice straight sex scene. Ugh.

Didn't Culber's dialogue suggest that there was some sort of work done to hide the fact Tyler's bones had been crushed so he'd pass the initial Starfleet medical scans, and this work was wearing off?

 

[Michael]

Do all gay characters henceforth get plot-armor?

Yes, obviously.

 

[cultcross]

Didn't Culber's dialogue suggest that there was some sort of work done to hide the fact Tyler's bones had been crushed so he'd pass the initial Starfleet medical scans, and this work was wearing off?

If so, I missed it. I will listen out on rewatch.

 

[ClintDagger]

Great episode. 10/10. Very fulfilling follow-up to last episode and there’s so much to look forward to as we finish out this season. It sounds like from reading this thread they are going to “undo” Culber’s death which will be bittersweet for me. He’s a good actor and it’s a promising character, but I also like the oh #@&$! factor of a character dying in a situation like that where you least expect it. But I’ll reserve judgment on that until we see how they play it.

 

[bigglesworth]

Definite 10. This is hands down the best episode of DIS and IMHO, probably in the top 10 for all of Trek. Excellent job by Frakes, the writers, the producers and especially the cast.

Spoiler

• I'm bummed that they killed Dr. Culber. He and Stamets had genuine chemistry together and Cruz himself is a solid actor. It sounds like he's going to come back somehow and I guess I feel a bit conflicted about that. I hope it's not magic blood or some other BS pseudo science used resurrect his corpse. I guess I feel that if they're going to kill off a character, then kill him/her. Don't pull a Walking Dead where all hope looks like it's lost for Glenn, then a few episodes later... nope... still alive..I was half expecting Glenn to come back somehow after their encounter with Negan...
• Those who made the Ash/Voq connection were spot on. It looks like the reprogramming or whatever wasn't as successful as L'Rell had hoped. Curious to see where this goes. Great job by Shazad Latif. He really sells the desperation and conflict his character is feeling.
• If Lorca is from the MU, he's obviously gunning for the Emperor, but what's his plan? Discovery is just one ship, and without its spore drive he really has no chance of claiming the throne. Furthermore, how's he going to convince/trick Saru and the others. I can't believe the Starfleet crew of Discovery would just go along with trying to overthrow a despot in an alternate universe? Maybe he intends to kill everyone on Discovery and staff it with MU people loyal to his cause.

 

[XCV330]

All? We've had two, and they've killed half. That's a standard trope which it's a shame Discovery entertained.

I don't think there was some secret cabal in the writers bull-pen "Well I'm out of ideas, gentlepersons. Can we kill a gay man?"

It was more about the fact they are the most natural couple on the show, and Culber is probably the most conscientious and human character on board. When he gets his neck snapped, it hurts the audience. It would not have mattered what his sexual identity was. That's good story telling. There's only one other romantic couple on board and Ash wasn't about to snap his own neck. Maybe he will later.

When chopping up creative decisions into tropes, it hobbles the writers. They can't write based on appeasement or the writing will suck. I don't know if Culber will come back or not. Maybe we'll meet Mirror Culber.

 

[Attentiveluke]

Then try and do a bit better next time. This is not the place for anti-"SJW" rants and male angst.

So what are we allowed to discuss and say?. The parameters are a quite restrictive. Do we all have to agree with each other?

 

[Lonemagpie]

Well, Discovery was fucking great this week- no surprises among the twists, really, but I still can't wait for next week's episode (even though the trailer implied I was spot on to say partway though "I bet Sarek will turn out to be the leader of the rebels."

Loving the new costumes too...

If the incompetent doctor is actually dead (yeah, right, how often does that happen in Trek) I can't say I give a shit, really...

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Culber mentioned the marrow-diminution procedure. He talked about the radius (arms), the femur (legs), and the spinal cord being shortened.

Star Trek has had characters die, only to be revived later. It did not happen often, not nearly as much as nu-Doctor Who has done it - death is virtually meaningless in that series. If Culber is revived later, I am like, "Whatever".

 

[{ Emilia }]

So what are we allowed to discuss and say?. The parameters are a quite restrictive. Do we all have to agree with each other?

I just told you. This is not the place to go on anti-SJW rants or post sexist nonsense. Now drop it. Comments to PM.

 

[johnjm22]

One of the things that made me laugh in this episode was seeing the cast wear those ridiculous Terran Empire uniforms while trying to act serious.

"All hail captain Burnham!"
"Long live the empire!"

That was such a painfully corny moment.

In the DS9 mirror episodes the cast looks ridiculous, but they're supposed to. It's meant to be silly. In Discovery they're trying to be serious but look like a joke. That's a good example of a smart show verse a stupid show.

 

[Noname Given]

Im not here to agree with people. Im not interested in the tyranny of the majority. Im entitled to my say. Bullying those with opposing views, you would do well in the Terran Empire.

Who's bullying you? You ARE expressing your viewpoint - and others are replying to you expressing their's. No one's posts have been censured or deleted as yet.)

You're the one so far calling people with viewpoints that differ from yours "Bullies".

 

[Rahul]

You don't really need to remember it.
The episode gives you all the information you need: a ship crossed over before without the spore drive, and the crew is trying to find out how that happened so they could maybe get back that way. That that event was depicted before is a nice bonus, but not essential to understanding what is going on now.

You kinda' have to.
If you don't know what the "Mirror Universe" is, or haven't seen both the TOS episode with the Tholians AND the mirror episode from ENT, you still will somewhat get along with the plot of this episode. But you won't get much out of it.

It's just silly to introduce fan-gatekeeping into the show itself. It's already hard enough for new viewers to get introduced into the whole Trek jargon and the fandom itself (ST09 was good at not introducing new viewers without expecting them to be familiar with anything more than the bare minimu). I don't think it's good for a new show to assume everyone is well versed with 800+ hours of previous Trek. I love little nods to the fans like every one else. I think it's stupid to hang essential plot points upon them.

 

[Jadeb]

Hm, I'm glad most seem to have enjoyed the episode, but for some reason it kind of left me completely cold. On a superficial level it's really cool looking and all – I loved the uniforms and seeing the Shenzhou again – but I'm bothered by how aimless the show as a whole seems. The whole exercise with the Klingons in the first half of the season seems really pointless now, for example. And suddenly they are in the Mirror Universe for no particular reason. Everything that could be a real surprise — like Ash being Voq or them ending up in the MU — ends up being just so telegraphed. I know the writers are asking us to trust them, but to be honest, after ten episodes my trust is wearing kind of thin. Just what is this series wanting to be about?

I enjoyed the ep, but it's pretty much full-on fan service. I was dismayed that all the predictable plot threads proved to be just as predictable as they seemed. The Mirror Universe stuff was entertaining, but I'm a little concerned they've gone to that well so quickly. It's great to see the show having some fun, but I kinda wish they had found their own fun before resorting to such a well-worn Trek trope. Between this and the Mudd ep, they're leaning mighty heavily on the genius of TOS. Add in the appearance of the Defiant, the Scotty gag, Stamets going Gary Mitchell and all the other Trek lore, and it's feeling very much like a show by fans, for fans. Which is fine, I guess. Maybe it's even to be expected for a show on a pay service. But it feels a bit insular and derivative.

 

[Noname Given]

As much as I like Mirror episodes the concept of a Terran empire is laughable, yeah humans subjugate stronger, more advanced than ourselves Andorians, Klingons, Vulcans and telepathic Betazoids in the 22nd century. They must have drugged them with heroin or something. A mirror universe controlled by feral Vulcans makes more sense.
If they find the time to explain how humanity did it, that would interest me but I bet they won't.

Burnham - how did they manage to subjugate so many species in so short a time?
Mirror Sarek (a secret rebel who helps them home) - We were bombarded with music over subspace from an ancient Terran musical composer, I believe his name was Mozart. The human on the ISS Cochrane promised to stop once they had our complete surrender. It was a very effective method.

I guess you never saw the opening to ENT - "In A Mirror Darkly" (Which explains how the Terrans got advanced alien taech faster and used it):

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Explain how Solkar's ship gets boarded and how the humans figure out how to fly it to Vulcan and read Vulcan in the first place? And get past Vulcan defenses with the one ship?

Um, they didn't kill all the Vulcans and tortued one who eventually submitted?

 

[Attentiveluke]

Who's bullying you? You ARE expressing your viewpoint - and others are replying to you expressing their's. No one's posts have been censured or deleted as yet.)

You're the one so far calling people with viewpoints that differ from yours "Bullies".

Well I’ve had 2 moderators pick at me because I don’t agree with their consensus. Moderators are in charge here and are threatening me because I don’t like how discovery is made.

 

[Jaimito]

All? We've had two, and they've killed half. That's a standard trope which it's a shame Discovery entertained.

watch the after trek, the writers gave this a lot of thought. Don't be so quick to judge.

 

[Amaris]

If so, I missed it. I will listen out on rewatch.

It's right before the, uh, impromptu chiropractic session. You can see where Culber is rapidly putting it all together, and he talks about the deep tissue programming and such.