Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x10 - "Despite Yourself"

[Jeyl]

Except Culber isn't being killed off. He talks about it on After Trek.

Than what was the point?

Ever watch "Wynonna Earp"? That was a show that featured two characters who ended up being a gay couple in the form of Nicole Haught and Waverly Earp. When it came time for our heroes to face off against the baddie, Nicole ended up getting shot and everyone believing she was going to die. But she didn't die because unlike how super freaking 'smart' Culber was, Officer Haught was smart enough to be wearing a bullet proof vest at the time. It was a pretty important moment for television when that moment aired because it conveyed how much the showrunners 'care' about their characters. I get none of that with Discovery.

 

[guyute03]

 

[Shon T'Hara]

As much as I like Mirror episodes the concept of a Terran empire is laughable, yeah humans subjugate stronger, more advanced than ourselves Andorians, Klingons, Vulcans and telepathic Betazoids in the 22nd century. They must have drugged them with heroin or something. A mirror universe controlled by feral Vulcans makes more sense.

If the Many Worlds interpretations of quantum physics is true (and we know from Parallels thatb it is in the Trek universe), then every possible timeline, no matter how absurd, is real. The MU is a timeline where the improbable keeps happening because it's mathematically possible for it to do so.

 

[GhostLoveScore]

Will this show mention every character and every ship from previous trek shows? And just how long were they going to spend in mirror universe? The rest of the season? What, the writers couldn't come up with more stories?

My support for this show has ended with the season break. I will continue to watch it so that I can comment on it, but I will not support it.
Maybe if at some time they prove Discovery to be worth my money I will consider supporting it again.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

About the mirror universe - I have always since the first time I saw "Mirror, Mirror" had trouble with accepting the premise of this parallel universe. That it is mirror image of the characters and setting of the universe we are most familiar with. I believe that people and setting are the result of chaotic events. of many variables, and that there is not a duplicate set of variables which would create a second person having the same name and appearance as the first person, only for the second person to be vastly more worse because of the nature of the universe. I just do not accept it.

As for the death of the doctor, I felt nothing. He is not a person to me - he is a plot device. If you asked me to tell you something about the doctor, I would have little to say.

Watchng the episode again, I thought it must suck to be Gabriel Lorca - his eyesight is damaged when the Buran is destroyed, he is tortured by the Klingons, and he is tortured by the agony booth.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In an infinite multiverse, the likelihood of any given universe - Mirror or otherwise - turning out the way it does, is no more or less likely than any other. So in a sense, the probability that the MU will be so much like the RU is no weirder than the probability of the two 'verses being completely different.

That said, it is also possible that certain groups of universes are 'congruent' and naturally attracted to one another. Perhaps the reason why it's so easy to travel from the Regular Universe to the Mirror Universe is because they are already so much alike. Simple transporter accidents (Mirror, Mirror), wormhole malfunctions (Crossover), handheld greeblies (various other DS9 episodes) and spore jumps have all proven themselves. So if it's so easy to jump universes, they may already be "close" together.

As for Culber's death, I'm taking Wilson Cruz's word for it on this one. If he says it's not just another "bury the gays" moment, then it's not, and if he says Culber will return, then he will. Case closed.

 

[Amaris]

Than what was the point?

Ever watch "Wynonna Earp"? That was a show that featured two characters who ended up being a gay couple in the form of Nicole Haught and Waverly Earp. When it came time for our heroes to face off against the baddie, Nicole ended up getting shot and everyone believing she was going to die. But she didn't die because unlike how super freaking 'smart' Culber was, Officer Haught was smart enough to be wearing a bullet proof vest at the time. It was a pretty important moment for television when that moment aired because it conveyed how much the showrunners 'care' about their characters. I get none of that with Discovery.

From what I gather, the point was to illustrate that Culber discovered why the Manchurian test found nothing, and that the Ash/Voq programming was coming undone, resulting in deadly blackouts for Ash. Now he's with Burnham, and who knows what will happen?

 

[Michael]

Hm, I'm glad most seem to have enjoyed the episode, but for some reason it kind of left me completely cold. On a superficial level it's really cool looking and all – I loved the uniforms and seeing the Shenzhou again – but I'm bothered by how aimless the show as a whole seems. The whole exercise with the Klingons in the first half of the season seems really pointless now, for example. And suddenly they are in the Mirror Universe for no particular reason. Everything that could be a real surprise — like Ash being Voq or them ending up in the MU — ends up being just so telegraphed. I know the writers are asking us to trust them, but to be honest, after ten episodes my trust is wearing kind of thin. Just what is this series wanting to be about?

Sorry if I sound overly negative right now. I haven't given up on the show and I will keep watching. I'm just saying I'm kind of disappointed where the last couple of episodes have taken the show. I like most of the characters, which really helps to keep my interest. But some of the dialog and plot feels just so weak to me. Oh well, here's hoping it will get better.

Also, I can't forgive them for killing off Culber. Even if they somehow bring him back, killing him in this episode for a cheap shock feels just so wrong for the first gay couple on Trek. Why are they writing it like that?

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

When a show kills off it's gay characters like this, the concept of a healthy gay couple was never there to begin with.

I'll wait until we see how this story thread ends up. But, even if they did manage to bring him back and they get to be happy and not dead together, then the fake out killing is still problematic if they're using these deaths for shock value. Maybe if how he returns is heart wrenchingly poignant and beautiful we can give this one a pass.

In an infinite multiverse, the likelihood of any given universe (Mirror or otherwise) turning out the way it does, is no more or less likely than any other.

That said, it is also possible that certain groups of universes are 'congruent' and naturally attracted to one another. Perhaps the reason why it's so easy (relatively speaking) to travel from the Regular Universe to the Mirror Universe is because they are already so much alike. Simple transporter accidents (Mirror, Mirror), wormhole malfunctions (Crossover), handheld greeblies (various other DS9 episodes) and spore jumps have all proven themselves. So if it's so easy to jump universes, they may already be "close" together.

In Rick and Morty they call the timelines that the Ricks visit as part of the 'central finite curve' implying that these universes are in close proximity to each other (probably the mathematics that make up the timelines are more similar to each other than say, the parallel universe of Fluidic Space). The same idea is probably applied here so that the Mirror Universe (and all the alternate timelines we see in Parallels) are probably part a 'finite curve' of universes that are closely related, and we happen to be able to travel to the Mirror Universe in particular what seems to be relatively easily.

 

[daedalus5]

Fantastic episode.

Spoiler: OMG!

Loved the Constitution class outline, the ISS Discovery hull markings. I shouted aloud when Dr Culper had his neck snapped - I really wasn't expecting that. Burnham is a definate bitch leaving Lorca be tortured like that when she makes out with Security bloke (still not mastered all their names yet!)

 

[Tuskin38]

I think you are supposed to conclude that the differences go back much further than the Vulcan shooting party in Montana.

That is outright said in the ENT Mirror Episode

Without the blingy armour, they're black versions of the regular uniforms. There were pics of a black uniform (with regular badge) doing the rounds months ago.

No, those were not black, it was the lighting in the photo.

I didn't watch last night's episode, but having heard about the new uniforms, I had to Google them.

My first thought was, "Oh. come on!" Then, I had to laugh.

Did you even see the right uniforms? They're amazing.


Is the preview from the end of the episode up on youtube yet?

 

[Tuskin38]

Why are they writing it like that?

Drama, and love (plus mushrooms) will bring him back.

 

[Vger23]

Will this show mention every character and every ship from previous trek shows? And just how long were they going to spend in mirror universe? The rest of the season? What, the writers couldn't come up with more stories?

My support for this show has ended with the season break. I will continue to watch it so that I can comment on it, but I will not support it.
Maybe if at some time they prove Discovery to be worth my money I will consider supporting it again.

Wow...that's um...something I'm sure we all are looking forward to!

 

[{ Emilia }]

It wasn’t all women in charge, yes, but the guy in charge of the Shinzo was only there until the better female came back to get her ship back and beat the man in combat. The young inexperienced Tilly was captain by being better than men. I have problem with social justice when it take something good and makes it worse. Canon may not be explicit in Terrence female dress code but all past episodes show an undeniable pattern of uniform that was ignored I believe because of modern day hypersensitivity.
Someone who is politically correct believes that language and actions that could be offensive to others especially those relating to sex and race, should be avoided. Avoiding sexy outfits to not offend certain vocal minorities is political correctness.

I’m not moaning by the way....

Then try and do a bit better next time. This is not the place for anti-"SJW" rants and male angst.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I'm disappointed so many seem to want a Game of Thrones style series molded into the modern ST. There's enough uniqueness in the ST universe that can be leveraged to make a successful series without adopting another series formula for success. However, for those that insist the only way to make a successful series today is to employ the Game of Thrones formula, you'll have to deal with everyone being expendable at any moment - including your favorites.

My desire to see a Discovery style Star Trek comes more from having read the Star Trek:Vanguard series of novels, which I would put up against any televised Trek in terms of quality.

 

[cultcross]

The discussion about female terran uniform was a small point I made

And changed your avatar to underscore that small point.

You also continued to carry on about how women shown in leadership positions or in any way better than men is "politically correct" and then we all enjoyed this piece of hand wringing misogyny:

It wasn’t all women in charge, yes, but the guy in charge of the Shinzo was only there until the better female came back to get her ship back and beat the man in combat. The young inexperienced Tilly was captain by being better than men. I have problem with social justice when it take something good and makes it worse.

I'd suggest you knock off the sexist crap at this point. This isn't the place for it.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Well, Empress Hoshi or Empress Georgiu are too obvious.

How about Empress Landry or Empress Katrina?

Or, since everything is a mirror of itself... EMPEROR SARU?!?

Of course, instead of "threat ganglia" he has the opposite "pacifist ganglia"

 

[SimonTC]

Too late.

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I guess now Discovery and Orville have another thing in common.

Yes, but Tilly isn't surgically enhanced.

 

[XCV330]

Hm, I'm glad most seem to have enjoyed the episode, but for some reason it kind of left me completely cold. On a superficial level it's really cool looking and all – I loved the uniforms and seeing the Shenzhou again – but I'm bothered by how aimless the show as a whole seems. The whole exercise with the Klingons in the first half of the season seems really pointless now, for example. And suddenly they are in the Mirror Universe for no particular reason. Everything that could be a real surprise — like Ash being Voq or them ending up in the MU — ends up being just so telegraphed. I know the writers are asking us to trust them, but to be honest, after ten episodes my trust is wearing kind of thin. Just what is this series wanting to be about?

Sorry if I sound overly negative right now. I haven't given up on the show and I will keep watching. I'm just saying I'm kind of disappointed where the last couple of episodes have taken the show. I like most of the characters, which really helps to keep my interest. But some of the dialog and plot feels just so weak to me. Oh well, here's hoping it will get better.

Also, I can't forgive them for killing off Culber. Even if they somehow bring him back, killing him in this episode for a cheap shock feels just so wrong for the first gay couple on Trek. Why are they writing it like that?

Do all gay characters henceforth get plot-armor?

 

[cultcross]

Or, since everything is a mirror of itself... EMPEROR SARU?!?

Of course, instead of "threat ganglia" he has the opposite "pacifist ganglia"

... To sense the coming of snuggles. I sense them now.