Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x09 - "Into the Forest I Go"

[Timo]

But what was it with the camera panning away from the exploding Klingon ship to see Burham looking away from the screen? Didn't make sense to me. Lost some of the grandeur of the moment.

Until that moment, Tyler has been standing behind Burnham. But at the moment of triumph, she suddenly realizes Tyler has left the scene.

(Why is that? Ambiguity is supposed to reign supreme. Either Tyler is a Klingon agent who cannot bear to see Klingons slaughtered, or then he's traumatized and needs to rest, or then it's him sneaking off and contacting Section 31 so that they can tell Species 8472 to launch their invasion via the multidimensional tribble that came back to life in Lorca's secret chamber.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Manuuk7]

Also, as a musical theatre nut, Mark and Angel from RENT discussing La Boheme gave me a serious LOL moment!

Star fleet officers aren't in the habit of shooting to kill.

Something that could easily be remedied...

 

[eschaton]

There's an alternative idea I saw suggested elsewhere: What if Lorca is Section 31, and he was interfering at the last minute to ensure that Discovery was not returned to a regular starbase, but to whatever black ops site Section 31 was currently working out of?

There are problems with this idea though - the biggest being Section 31 would presumably have to find some way to "disappear" the whole crew, which seems a bridge too far even for them.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

There's an alternative idea I saw suggested elsewhere: What if Lorca is Section 31, and he was interfering at the last minute to ensure that Discovery was not returned to a regular starbase, but to whatever black ops site Section 31 was currently working out of?

There are problems with this idea though - the biggest being Section 31 would presumably have to find some way to "disappear" the whole crew, which seems a bridge too far even for them.

I never liked section 31. I thought the idea was cheesy at best,

So I truly hope they never bring them into the fold.

 

[Manuuk7]

For myself, I like learning about this Star Trek universe. Yet, I have not developed an understanding of these characters. After watching the episode twice, there is a scene which I do not comprehend on an emotional level. Burnham and Tyler returned to the Discovery bridge. There is emotional communication between Burnham and members of the crew. I can not read what is happening here. It is vague, confusing to me. For me, this scene is a major blockage in the momentum of the episode.

I have recently seen "Stranger Things". For myself, this is how a serialized show should be done. I developed an affection for the characters and I was behind in them in their journey. I do not have the same feelings for the characters in Discovery. I never found myself, as I did with the latest episode, wondering what the hell was being sent in the emotional connections between characters. And, when what some consider the worst episode of "Stranger Things" was on the tv - the seventh episode of season 2 - I did not find myself turning away in boredom or finding it cringey. There was two episodes of "Discovery" where I did this - the episode with Mudd and the Pahvo episode.

I am more excited for a third season of "Stranger Things" then I am for the rest of the first season of Discovery and for the eventual second season, whenever that comes out. I will continue watching the latter show as I am a devoted Star Trek fan. I like learning about this universe. However, my enthusiasm for the series has been dampened considerably.

I didn't connect emotionally with the characters in TNG or VOY or DS9 either but I did with ENT. Go figure. But Trek is Trek is Trek and I'll always be a fan.

 

[cultcross]

Yeah I hope section 31 never appear in this show.

 

[NaughtyTrekkie]

Yeah I hope section 31 never appear in this show.

I'm for the section 31 theory, but I don't know how to explain the fact that the discovery seemes to be an official and wellknown starfleet ship.

 

[Manuuk7]

"If" Lorca us from an alternate universe I wonder if his interest in Burnham will be revealed...perhaps HIS Burnham was a protégé/someone he cared about that he lost in his universe?

I was wondering about that... What is the link? She herself expressed on the bridge that it was about her

 

[cultcross]

I think Lorca's agenda, whatever it is, will be something he's doing alone. I don't think he'll end up being a spy/mirror universe plant/Klingon/hologram/whatever. He'll just have something he wants to achieve, probably tied to his history as they keep bringing that up. Methinks it may be saving his old crew, or finishing their final mission or something connected to that - as a single piece of backstory they've referenced it about three times now.

 

[eschaton]

I never liked section 31. I thought the idea was cheesy at best,

So I truly hope they never bring them into the fold.

Admittedly it was the third-worst idea DS9's writing team ever had (the second was ruining Dukat's ambiguity, and the first was the Pah-Wraiths).

Still, I'd rather Lorca be a Section 31 agent than Mirror Lorca, Garth of Izar, or another Klingon in disguise.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Admittedly it was the third-worst idea DS9's writing team ever had (the second was ruining Dukat's ambiguity, and the first was the Pah-Wraiths).

Still, I'd rather Lorca be a Section 31 agent than Mirror Lorca, Garth of Izar, or another Klingon in disguise.

True on all accounts, as much as I love DS9

 

[Snarfies]

I never liked section 31. I thought the idea was cheesy at best,

So I truly hope they never bring them into the fold.

Section 31 brings reality in thats what most (of us) are afraid of ha ha also in our univers. So Section 31 for the plot is a blessing.

 

[Mr Awe]

I'm going by the actual dialogue between Lorca and Stamets. There was nothing on screen that would indicate that Lorca was psychologically manipulating Stamets. I'll leave guessing what was in the characters' minds to others.

Boy have I bridge to sell you!

It was masterful but subtle manipulation by Lorca. He knew that Stamets wouldn't make the tired crewed take the slow way! After 133 consecutive jumps, what's one more?

 

[Mechanoid1]

I don't think Lorca is from an alternate universe. He was emotionally too envolved in the war against the klingons.

Maybe the discovery ship with spore drive is from an alternate universe and are now stuck in the prime universe. (For this current jump anyway)

 

[cultcross]

Admittedly it was the third-worst idea DS9's writing team ever had (the second was ruining Dukat's ambiguity, and the first was the Pah-Wraiths).

Still, I'd rather Lorca be a Section 31 agent than Mirror Lorca, Garth of Izar, or another Klingon in disguise.

Section 31 worked fine for me as long as there was a chance that it was all just in Sloan's head. As soon as it became undeniably real, it got stupid beyond belief. Bringing it into STID was the icing on that ridiculous cake.

Sometimes, sci-fi writers have good one off ideas that tell an interesting story. But we can never just leave well alone. There's always got to be a sequel. Doctor who is bad at that (weeping angels...) and so is Trek. Like the mirror universe, or Risa, or Q, they just can't stop going back to that well.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Sometimes, sci-fi writers have good one off ideas that tell an interesting story. But we can never just leave well alone. .

/cough borg /cough

 

[cultcross]

Boy have I bridge to sell you!

It was masterful but subtle manipulation by Lorca. He knew that Stamets wouldn't make the tired crewed take the slow way! After 133 consecutive jumps, what's one more?

Exactly, that was a classic "I'll just walk home it's not far and it's not raining that hard" combined with puppy dog eyes that say "lift please".

The part that Lorca wasn't expecting was Stamets saying it was his last jump. That shortened his timescale to act.

 

[Snarfies]

I don't think Lorca is from an alternate universe. He was emotionally too envolved in the war against the klingons.

He's problably a section 31 member.
The last jump should have brought the discovery in a Section 31 base, but Starnett bad condiotion fucked the jump and they went somewherelse (lorca seemed really surprise), maybe in an alternate reality.

Nothing to do with Starnett bad condition. If you re-run you see at the moment he (probably a Section 31 agent orderd by Lorca) put in the coordinates it stated : "Override -Lorca, G." and "Spore-Jump 133--Unknown" So at that stage you easely could abort or intervien. It is al done by purpose. Lorca probably knows much more about alternative time lines, multi dimensional realities etc etc we are aware of. Lorca also new Starnett would resign that was not in Lorca's/Section31 plan i guess so he had to improvise to keep Starnett in. Ha ha screwd-up Section31 agents who will do everything to reach limits and byond i love it. We are living in a hidious world thats what STD reflects. Screen writers that keeps us reminding about reality keep on rocking.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

To the same category belong Worf's warnings/boasts about non-Klingon females being too frail for Klingon males in the copulation sense. (When we actually see the outcome, Jadzia Dax has hurt Worf just as bad as Worf has hurt Dax.)

The only thing that ever comes close to somebody saying that Klingons are strong is when Sisko curses the superior strength of Vulcans in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite", saying that the only two who might come close to Vulcans are Worf and Bashir. But his exact words are "They're stronger and faster than any one of us, except for Worf and our genetically enhanced Doctor", and we can always interpret that as meaning Worf and the Doctor may match the Vulcans in speed even when neither has any hope of matching their strength.

Indeed, that's a squirrelly quote to begin with considering Bashir wasn't supposed to have any serious physical improvements beyond hand-eye coordination to begin with. And even if Worf is strong enough to fight a vulcan, that doesn't mean Klingons in general are as strong as vulcans in general.

...Sending a shuttlecraft would be more noticeable than sending the mushroomship?

We have no indication the Klingons could track shuttlecraft that way. Heck, whether they could even track full starships inside the UFP sphere of influence (which apparently very much includes Pahvo) is debatable.

Timo Saloniemi

A shuttlecraft would have to fly through space for three hours. That's three hours in which it can potentially encounter a cloaked klingon ship, whether the klingon ship was actually tracking it or not (which a cloaked ship most definitely could do, but that would be somewhat unKlingon). And that's also a clear Federation ship signal on a supposedly unihabited planet which could be noticed if any klingon ship passes nearby. Discovery jumps to orbit instantly with no time spent on any route leading there, beams a few people down and jumps out instantly. There's a maximum window of a few minutes at most in which anything could possibly be noticed by anyone, which means the only way for the Klingons to find out about the mission is for them to already be there when Disco arrives. For the shuttlecraft, though, all that needs to happen is for 1 cloaked bird of prey to wander into the shuttle's path, which is an eminently possible thing since we're specifically told that the cloaking device is letting the Klingons wreak havok behind federation lines.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

I never liked section 31. I thought the idea was cheesy at best,

So I truly hope they never bring them into the fold.

Yeah I hope section 31 never appear in this show.

Prepare for disappointment, because I'd bet my wee bairns that Section 31 will come into this show somehow. In what way, I can't predict, but they were implicated in the metagenic Klingon Augment virus storyline in ENT. As there is basically zero chance DSC won't include some sort of further through-line from that to TOS here—sooner or later—there is accordingly almost equally little chance they haven't thought out some role for Section 31.