Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x09 - "Into the Forest I Go"

[Grendelsbayne]

If we were being realistic, there is no way a woman who looked like SMG would defeat any human male in hand-to-hand combat the size of Kenneth Mitchell, let alone a Klingon, as they are canonically much stronger than humans.

Of course, that never stopped Trek from having humans win hand-to-hand combat with Klingons in the past, and those scenes were usually terribly choreographed.

But she shouldn't have been able to block an overhead strike without breaking her arms given how much stronger then a Human Klingon's are supposed to be.

Oh and the weakest of Klingons would've squashed Michael like a bug. That fight scene stretched credibility to laughable levels. Might have been the only fun part of the episode.

Maybe someone has another example, but the only time I ever remember anyone coming even close to implying Klingons were in any way stronger than humans was when Worf talked about how he had to hold back when playing with human children for fear of killing them. But that example of course doesn't actually prove Klingons in general are stronger than humans at all - it could just as easily be the case that Klingon's are just much more durable (stronger bones) and naturally aggressive in such a way that it could easily lead to breaking the unusually fragile skeleton of a human child. There's no reason that information even necessarily need apply to Klingon adults vs human adults at all.

Two different starbases there: therapy at SB 88, Discovery layover at SB 46. But this makes things sorta worse: Starfleet has two bases within striking range of Pahvo, including one within shuttlecraft range, and nevertheless it falls on their fastest and longest-range ship to perform the mission?

And if it takes three hours to warp from SB 46 to Pahvo, why isn't Starfleet sending an extra ship or two to Pahvo instead of withdrawing the Discovery once Kol is toast? The planet obviously is no more protected now than it was previously, and Lorca does claim the Klingons are coming (if only to bait Stamets into doing one final jump).

Timo Saloniemi

There's no mission to begin with. Starfleet wanted them out of there. Unless you're talking about the original mission re: the beacon, in which case, it's a clear attempt to hide the mission. A ship running warp 7 from a known starbase can be followed. Discovery, on the other hand, popped into orbit with no warning, deposited a landing party and popped out without any possibility of having alerted the Klingons that there even was any mission occurring.

As for why they're not sending more ships now - Lorca didn't actually give them the cloak-breaker yet, so they're still huddling defensively. And the Admiralty clearly doesn't give a damn about the Parvhans to begin with.

Voq is the torchbearer.

That title means that it is his job to set off the beacon of Kahless.

Michael's phaser that she dropped in the pilot (part2) was set to stun seconds before she shot T'Kuvma, and then suddenly it wasn't.

Either she changed the setting, the fall nudged the setting, or there's a third factor in play like a time traveller or space god, or...

Nothing sudden about it. She visibly changed the setting on her phaser before she fired.

 

[Gonzo]

I find it hard to believe that your love for Discovery is enhanced by crapping on Enterprise. If it is I feel sorry for you.

Not at all, I just acknowledge how much better Discovery's start has been, for me anyway.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Solid episode to end the first half-season.

I'd say B+. Maybe even A-.

 

[Timo]

Maybe someone has another example, but the only time I ever remember anyone coming even close to implying Klingons were in any way stronger than humans was when Worf talked about how he had to hold back when playing with human children for fear of killing them.

To the same category belong Worf's warnings/boasts about non-Klingon females being too frail for Klingon males in the copulation sense. (When we actually see the outcome, Jadzia Dax has hurt Worf just as bad as Worf has hurt Dax.)

The only thing that ever comes close to somebody saying that Klingons are strong is when Sisko curses the superior strength of Vulcans in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite", saying that the only two who might come close to Vulcans are Worf and Bashir. But his exact words are "They're stronger and faster than any one of us, except for Worf and our genetically enhanced Doctor", and we can always interpret that as meaning Worf and the Doctor may match the Vulcans in speed even when neither has any hope of matching their strength.

There's no mission to begin with. Starfleet wanted them out of there. Unless you're talking about the original mission re: the beacon, in which case, it's a clear attempt to hide the mission.

...Sending a shuttlecraft would be more noticeable than sending the mushroomship?

We have no indication the Klingons could track shuttlecraft that way. Heck, whether they could even track full starships inside the UFP sphere of influence (which apparently very much includes Pahvo) is debatable.

As for why they're not sending more ships now - Lorca didn't actually give them the cloak-breaker yet, so they're still huddling defensively. And the Admiralty clearly doesn't give a damn about the Parvhans to begin with.

Lorca said he'd give the key in 11 hours. After this, everybody's wounds were healed and Tyler and Burnham spent a night together. Was that night shorter than 11 hours in length?

It is only after this that Stamets tries to "save his friends from Klingons" who have yet to arrive and who indeed have not yet shown any real signs of arriving.

But supposedly Stamets and Lorca do care about the planet. Why do they want to abandon it?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Satron]

This episode delivered one good thing: the possibility of more of Admiral Cornwell.

 

[Pure Antiproton]

"If" Lorca us from an alternate universe I wonder if his interest in Burnham will be revealed...perhaps HIS Burnham was a protégé/someone he cared about that he lost in his universe?

This is my theory also. Lorca knew where she was and saved her in Context. Since then is very protective. I think he's fought this war in his other universe and she is key to ending it somehow.

 

[waxon]

I'm going by the actual dialogue between Lorca and Stamets. There was nothing on screen that would indicate that Lorca was psychologically manipulating Stamets. I'll leave guessing what was in the characters' minds to others.

Didn't Lorca tell Staments that he'd rejected that valor award and told starfleet to give it to Staments because he was the one who had done all the work, right before Staments took it upon himself volunteer. When in actual fact we didn't seem him refuse the award or mention Staments?

Lorca seems like the kind of character who does not often dole out praise, and if he does it's because he has some kind of reason for doing so. He's not just being nice or recognising his staff. Looking at the scene based on what was said and using what we know from the scene with Starfleet, Lorca seemed to be manipulating Stamets into using the Spore drive. For what reason, it is unclear because he could just have ordered Stamets to use the drive but he didn't. He went out of his way to make sure Stamets volunteered, as was not asked.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Lorca showing that at his Core, he IS a true blue Starfleet officer and Captain.

Um, no. The only thing Lorca showed (once again in Ep.9) is that he’s a master manipulator.

 

[caper_guy]

Loved it when

Spoiler: Badass Lorca

Lorca treated his eyes at the last second so that he could see the Klingon ship go up without it blinding him.

Fucken badass; loved it.

Definitely!

But what was it with the camera panning away from the exploding Klingon ship to see Burham looking away from the screen? Didn't make sense to me. Lost some of the grandeur of the moment.

 

[Tim Thomason]

I'm in the small camp that believe TNG-era Klingons are stronger than humans. This could be an end result of the genetic manipulation that restored the Klingon appearance following the humanization from Enterprise and the monstrization prior to Discovery. The Enterprise era Klingons may or may not have been as strong, but I think Affliction implies they are on par with humans.

But even if Kol was five times as strong as a regular human, we have to remember that Burnham is an expert at Vulcan martial arts (suus mahna), while Kol could very well be a pampered nobleman who often ignored the Klingon way and never had to face a real fight in his life. Burnham might have some added strength due to the katra infusion as well.

And Kol didn't lose the fight anyway. Burnham transported away right before what would've been her death.

 

[cultcross]

Um, no. The only thing Lorca showed (once again in Ep.9) is that he’s a master manipulator.

Lorca's directive to find a way to save the Pahvans doesn't appear to have much motivation behind it besides desire to save them.
He doesn't know at this point that he will face Kol's ship, or that the spore drive will be key to breaking the cloak, and so as far at he knows when he gives that order, there is nothing in it for him.
Then when they come up with their solution, there's no actual reason to go back, alone, and against orders to test it against this specific Klingon ship except to protect the planet. They don't even need the planet at this point, as they'd come up with another solution to the cloak. Lorca's decision to jump back is arguably as motivated by a desire to do the right thing as Picard's decision in STFC to join the fight.

Plus last episode, he showed willingness to risk himself in an effort to save the Gargarin. Again, no apparent selfish motive.

While he is certainly manipulative and playing to his own tune, he seems to share motivation with many previous Starfleet captains of our acquaintance.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Um, no. The only thing Lorca showed (once again in Ep.9) is that he’s a master manipulator.

He somehow managed to manipulate half the audience into believing his sincerity.

 

[Paradise City]

He's a grittier version of Kirk, Lorca, but, whilst fragile in certain senses, he seems to be a good egg all n' all.

I enjoyed the episode. I enjoyed the successful mission and the rescue of the admiral. The destruction of the ship of the dead was quite a twist. The Tyler character is poised to take an interesting turn. So, all good for when the series resumes.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Lorca's directive to find a way to save the Pahvans doesn't appear to have much motivation behind it besides desire to save them.
He doesn't know at this point that he will face Kol's ship, or that the spore drive will be key to breaking the cloak, and so as far at he knows when he gives that order, there is nothing in it for him.
Then when they come up with their solution, there's no actual reason to go back, alone, and against orders to test it against this specific Klingon ship except to protect the planet. They don't even need the planet at this point, as they'd come up with another solution to the cloak. Lorca's decision to jump back is arguably as motivated by a desire to do the right thing as Picard's decision in STFC to join the fight.

Lorca is shown to be a master manipulator in the scene where he convinces Stamets to make the 133 spore drive micro-jumps. All the above are irrelevant.

 

[NaughtyTrekkie]

I don't think Lorca is from an alternate universe. He was emotionally too envolved in the war against the klingons.

He's problably a section 31 member.
The last jump should have brought the discovery in a Section 31 base, but Starnett bad condiotion fucked the jump and they went somewherelse (lorca seemed really surprise), maybe in an alternate reality.

 

[Guy Gardener]

A superior gave a subordinate an order, that won a war and saved his species from being BBQed, and served as dinner to aliens.

What a master manipulator.

 

[Satron]

Lorca's directive to find a way to save the Pahvans doesn't appear to have much motivation behind it besides desire to save them.
He doesn't know at this point that he will face Kol's ship, or that the spore drive will be key to breaking the cloak, and so as far at he knows when he gives that order, there is nothing in it for him.
Then when they come up with their solution, there's no actual reason to go back, alone, and against orders to test it against this specific Klingon ship except to protect the planet. They don't even need the planet at this point, as they'd come up with another solution to the cloak. Lorca's decision to jump back is arguably as motivated by a desire to do the right thing as Picard's decision in STFC to join the fight.

Plus last episode, he showed willingness to risk himself in an effort to save the Gargarin. Again, no apparent selfish motive.

While he is certainly manipulative and playing to his own tune, he seems to share motivation with many previous Starfleet captains of our acquaintance.

The presentation of his motives is a bit all over the place. No doubt he wants to defeat the Klingons. But he risked that, his ship and his crew, and Starfleet's advantage when he manipulated the final spore drive jump and landed the Discovery God-knows where.

 

[cultcross]

The presentation of his motives is a bit all over the place.

I just think you see different motivations at different times. He wants to win the war, but there is clearly an angle there we're not yet privy to. Whether he is just unhinged by his experiences or whether there is something else there, we don't know.

I'm suspicious that he wants Discovery and its powers for some sort of mission or task, and that's what he was jumping to do, and it went wrong. Perhaps his old command isn't gone at all, but stuck somewhere?

All the above are irrelevant.

Naturally.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

I don't think Lorca is from an alternate universe. He was emotionally too envolved in the war against the klingons.

He's problably a section 31 member.
The last jump should have brought the discovery in a Section 31 base, but Starnett bad condiotion fucked the jump and they went somewherelse (lorca seemed really surprise), maybe in an alternate reality.

The presentation of his motives is a bit all over the place. No doubt he wants to defeat the Klingons. But he risked that, his ship and his crew, and Starfleet's advantage when he manipulated the final spore drive jump and landed the Discovery God-knows where.

They landed Lorca-knows where...

OVERRIDE - LORCA, G.
SPORE-JUMP 133: - - UNKNOWN

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

They landed Lorca-knows where...

OVERRIDE - LORCA, G.
SPORE-JUMP 133: - - UNKNOWN

We see master manipulator Lorca himself enter the coordinates right before he says...

“Let’s go home.”

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