Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x09 - "Into the Forest I Go"

[Tuskin38]

There are literally no named Klingon characters remaining.

Actually no, we still have Kol's high council buddies Dennas and Ujilli

 

[Vger23]

When they go warp 5 those stars are flying by a heck of a lot faster than warp speed in other treks

I think it's a distortion effect...not real-time velocity...that they're trying to show.

 

[Rahul]

There was no logic rationale for Lorca altering the last jump to "unknown".

He just singlehandedly turned the tide of the war. Defeated the leader of the enemy fraction and their flagship. AND found a universal solution for the cloaking device. He's a decorated hero.

What's the worst thing that could happen to him? Cornwell telling the other Admirals "he's crazy"? Well, so what? He just singlehandedly won the war. It isn't crazy if it works. Also, Cornwell was clearly compromised (in the eyes of everyone else) by being a klingon prisoner. She might say Lorca intentionally led her to the klingons and didn't save her. But where's the proof? It was her decision to go. And not saving her was just following regular orders. Now, Cornwell would surely know something's wrong with Lorca. But what could she do? She's just one person, who's grudge would be easily dismissable by others as a coping mechanism for her torture. And Lorca just saved not only her, but everybody. He's untouchable.

I hope, hope the writers will give him another rationale for stranding the Discovery.

 

[Timo]

Yeah. If this was his "masterful manipulation" then the writers are idiots. Lorca presumably doesn't read minds, and he had no way of knowing Stamets was going to suggest "one last jump." If they wanted to get across that this was all Lorca's nefarious plan to begin with, they should have had the idea originate with Lorca to begin with.

Naah. Masterful manipulators in real life never get caught with having originated an idea. For the audience to catch Lorca doing so would merely establish him as non-masterful...

But saying "The Klingons are coming, oh, no worries, we'll just warp away" is pretty explicit even for the audience.

Did Lorca fail to deliver the secret of cloak-busting? He says processing it is underway and delivery will happen in 11 hours - but we never hear how long then transpires before they jump. Yet there's time for Lorca to re-contact Starfleet and ask for the Legion of Honor to be awarded to Stamets instead (unless that is a lie). And there's a night Tyler can spend having nightmares, after both he and Burnham have been de-bloodied.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Michael]

I agree that it is brave to do a PTSD story about sexual torture of a male, in really hoping they don't undo it with a 'surprise' Voq reveal. I'm holding out hope it's been misdirection, or is at least cleverer than I'm imagining.

Very true. The eventual “Tyler is Voq” reveal has the potential to undermine the whole graveness of the PTSD storyline. I really hope this story has at least some kind of surprise left in the second part of season one.

Noticed again something I forgot to mention, though: we finally get to see the shoulder-mounted flashlights on the away vests in action.

Yeah, noticed that as well on the second run-through. Nice!

So, have they now cracked the Klingon cloaking device for good or just the one of the Ship of the Dead?

 

[USS Excelsior]

If the Discovery is permanently lost that would explain why you don’t see the spore drive again.

 

[cultcross]

To address some points that were raised about my post.

What? Someone being forced to have sex against their will under penalty of death isn't rape because of their gender? I'm from the UK too and that just sounds insane to me.

Rape is a crime (in the UK) that requires a penis to commit it -
A penetrates B's vagina, anus or mouth with his penis
B does not consent
A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
Citation: S.1 Sexual Offences Act 2003

That is not to say that what is happening with L'Rell and Tyler is not an offence or not wrong, but the point raised was that the show avoided the word 'rape'. As the discussion was language use, I was merely suggesting that what was seen was not 'rape' in many jurisdictions external to the US.

I've grown to like and look forward to a lot of conversation points you drop, but I may be misreading your comment, cause this one is head scratching to me.

I dunno much about the UK as I've never been, But I know I'm not a typical knucklehead yank, I am absolutely certain, a woman can rape a man. A man having an erection is simply a matter of certain physical stimulation, it absolutely can happen against a man's will, though not common it's not impossible or difficult.

also, there the is concept of force through threat. If one was told "sex or death" I would consider that rape, forcing someone to have sex against their will, and I would say death is an unreasonable consequence, and count that as force.

Force or threat is not required for rape or indeed any sexual offence in English law (it is in some jurisdictions in the western world, something I find odd). Arousal s not relevant to consent in any western jurisdiction of which I am aware. My point solely relates to the specific crime rape, which here requires a penis.

sounds insane to me too..except it’s not the first time I have heard it. But yeah..basically, in the uk, rape is only rape if the person instigating it in some way penetrates the other

Specifically, vagina anus or mouth with penis. Nothing else is rape. Again, it doesn't mean it isn't another criminal offence.

It’s head spinningly mental, mind boggling in its sexism, but there we go

Not really, all the offences are covered, just by different rules.

I am from the UK and have fo say your talking out your arse.
Rape can be committed by women. Women have been convict of rape in the uk!
Your claim is pretty much why men dont report it very often.......because idiots dont beleive it exists......

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Nobody has ever been convicted of rape who didn't use their penis to do it (you'll notice that I carefully did not use 'man' or 'woman' in my original post; there are men without penis and women with). Men can be victims of rape as they can be victims of any other sexual offence. Male underreporting of sexual offences is a multi factorial issue, but correct use of definitions is not one of the factors.

 

[marsh8472]

If the Discovery is permanently lost that would explain why you don’t see the spore drive again.

I thought about this too. Just turn it into a lost in space show.

 

[Kor]

I don't know, to be honest. I was just thinking it was a throw-away shot of his cool chair console.

I might be letting my love of the character get in my way here...I just don't see it given the recent evolution of his character. It would be horrifically anti-climactic.

Also, the console shows the heading he input as "unknown." It seems like if he was just putting in the coordinates for the base, then the computer would know where that was located.

Kor

 

[Timo]

So, have they now cracked the Klingon cloaking device for good or just the one of the Ship of the Dead?

If the Klingons are too stupid to invent the Universal Translator on their own, I doubt they can create varieties of cloak out of the single machine (blueprint?) that Kol stole.

Although the Klingons not even having the UT is sort of in contradiction of ENT, isn't it?

...Is it?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kor]

If the Klingons are too stupid to invent the Universal Translator on their own, I doubt they can create varieties of cloak out of the single machine (blueprint?) that Kol stole.

Timo Saloniemi

They probably never worked on translation technology because they didn't see it as a tactical advantage.

Kor

 

[XCV330]

If the Klingons are too stupid to invent the Universal Translator on their own, I doubt they can create varieties of cloak out of the single machine (blueprint?) that Kol stole.

Although the Klingons not even having the UT is sort of in contradiction of ENT, isn't it?

...Is it?

Timo Saloniemi

I think Hoshi did all the translating for them in ENT when dealing with Klingons. She rigged a translator for Archer to pretend to be Klingon when they were passing through Klingon space. It fooled them.

 

[Michael]

If the Klingons are too stupid to invent the Universal Translator on their own, I doubt they can create varieties of cloak out of the single machine (blueprint?) that Kol stole.

Hm, I don't think the episode was very clear one way or the other. To me it seemed like they were only cracking the cloaking device or that one ship. But maybe I was misunderstanding the episode.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

There was no logic rationale for Lorca altering the last jump to "unknown".

He just singlehandedly turned the tide of the war. Defeated the leader of the enemy fraction and their flagship. AND found a universal solution for the cloaking device. He's a decorated hero.

What's the worst thing that could happen to him? Cornwell telling the other Admirals "he's crazy"? Well, so what? He just singlehandedly won the war. It isn't crazy if it works. Also, Cornwell was clearly compromised (in the eyes of everyone else) by being a klingon prisoner. She might say Lorca intentionally led her to the klingons and didn't save her. But where's the proof? It was her decision to go. And not saving her was just following regular orders. Now, Cornwell would surely know something's wrong with Lorca. But what could she do? She's just one person, who's grudge would be easily dismissable by others as a coping mechanism for her torture. And Lorca just saved not only her, but everybody. He's untouchable.

I hope, hope the writers will give him another rationale for stranding the Discovery.

If, and I mean if, like I'm really stretching, he feared he would lose command, it could make sense, follow me here;

1.) When admiral Cornhole threatened to take his ship he utterly freaked out.
2.) The man who would go anywhere to bring the fight to the Klingons, disobey orders and save people wouldn't go after Cornhole, I believe due to threat of losing Discovery
3.) He seemed a bit, though subtly disjointed at the idea of Stamets performing his last jump, and this was an order to go back to the starbase, where again it's possible he may lose his command.

If this were to be Stamet's last jump, AND Lorca is from an alternate universe, AND he is afraid of losing his ship,

I can see it making sense.

 

[jaime]

Hm, I don't think the episode was very clear one way or the other. To me it seemed like they were only cracking the cloaking device or that one ship. But maybe I was misunderstanding the episode.

They cracked it on that one ship, but it’s that one ship that had its tech duplicated across the whole fleet, so it’s implied the algorithm is good for all ships, as they all use basically that same cloak.
Aside from which, if the ship of the dead is seen to lose its cloak advantage, they may believe it is flawed tech and stop using it.

 

[jaime]

If, and I mean if, like I'm really stretching, he feared he would lose command, it could make sense, follow me here;

1.) When admiral Cornhole threatened to take his ship he utterly freaked out.
2.) The man who would go anywhere to bring the fight to the Klingons, disobey orders and save people wouldn't go after Cornhole, I believe due to threat of losing Discovery
3.) He seemed a bit, though subtly disjointed at the idea of Stamets performing his last jump, and this was an order to go back to the starbase, where again it's possible he may lose his command.

If this were to be Stamet's last jump, AND Lorca is from an alternate universe, AND he is afraid of losing his ship,

I can see it making sense.

I think it’s possible he wanted to see what was in the holes, and Possibly felt Stamets would agree. It’s possible, if not likely.

You have one hell of a spellcheck for Admirals names...

 

[Timo]

I think Hoshi did all the translating for them in ENT when dealing with Klingons. She rigged a translator for Archer to pretend to be Klingon when they were passing through Klingon space. It fooled them.

That's what I'm wondering about... Situations without Sato in attendance. Say, did the Klingons in "Affliction"/"Divergence" decide to speak English for Archer's benefit (even though they really ought to have been speaking Denobulan for Phlox' benefit), or did Phlox have a translating device he never told the heroes about?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vger23]

There was no logic rationale for Lorca altering the last jump to "unknown".

He just singlehandedly turned the tide of the war. Defeated the leader of the enemy fraction and their flagship. AND found a universal solution for the cloaking device. He's a decorated hero.

What's the worst thing that could happen to him? Cornwell telling the other Admirals "he's crazy"? Well, so what? He just singlehandedly won the war. It isn't crazy if it works. Also, Cornwell was clearly compromised (in the eyes of everyone else) by being a klingon prisoner. She might say Lorca intentionally led her to the klingons and didn't save her. But where's the proof? It was her decision to go. And not saving her was just following regular orders. Now, Cornwell would surely know something's wrong with Lorca. But what could she do? She's just one person, who's grudge would be easily dismissable by others as a coping mechanism for her torture. And Lorca just saved not only her, but everybody. He's untouchable.

I hope, hope the writers will give him another rationale for stranding the Discovery.

You put it far better than I have been trying to. Well said.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I think it’s possible he wanted to see what was in the holes, and Possibly felt Stamets would agree. It’s possible, if not likely.

You have one hell of a spellcheck for Admirals names...

I have an immature knack for nicknames. I played cornhole over the weekend too, it was in my head.

I still love whoever on here dropped Tacoma for Tkuvmah's name, that's stuck in my head. Me and the other host of our podcast refer to Voq as Poweder too.

 

[DEWLine]

Canadian law on sexual assault - rewritten to cover the wider range of possible offenders and victims - begins with Sections 271-273 of our Criminal Code. S. 272 covers situations "with a weapon", and s. 273 deals with the "aggravated" forms of the crime, where the offender "wounds, maims, disfigures or endangers the life of the complainant".

You can start from here:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-64.html#docCont

So, under Canadian law, Tyler could file charges against L'Rell and have the charges taken seriously.