Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x09 - "Into the Forest I Go"

[MvRojo]

Obviously Stamets was lucky to have survived the multiple jumps. It made no sense he would agree to another one.

I think his reasoning made total sense. The crew has been through a lot and he wanted to give them a quick jump home. A noble thing.

 

[Timo]

The timing is a bit odd - they supposedly aren't going to faraway Earth (how many of them call that home anyway?) but the very nearby SB 46 (three hours was already established for the travel time). Not worth a jump IMHO.

I mean, they'd probably be there sooner without jumping and all the preparations this involves (including having a chat on the shuttle deck).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[starri]

And some masterful manipulation by Lorca.

 

[cgervasi]

Indeed. That look of dread on Lorca's face seemed rather unmistakable.

I think the unofficial rule from Kirk's era is if you are forgiven for disobeying orders if you save Earth. Lorca didn't exactly "save Earth", but the positive outcomes of him going back and fighting the Klingons were nearly that good. So I take it at face value that they want to give him a medal. The problem was before this they thought he was a loose cannon before. Now they have the Admiral back, who may or may not change her mind after he rescued her. Everyone on the Discovery completely supported Lorca's decision to go back and fight the Kliingons and protect the planet. I think they really will give him a medal. I don't think they have anything up their sleeve.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Never could have imagined DSC would be THIS f*ng good!

The proper term is "Fucking cool".

Maybe Discovery takes place in a different universe from the Prime Universe which explains the inconsistencies. And maybe that’s where they ended up so we’ll see all the retro stuff in it.

I don't think I've heard that theory before.

And I guess that the gay spore guy got turned into a Gary Mitchell at the end.

His eyes went milky not silver.

 

[MvRojo]

Meh... gave it a 5.
I think this episode sums up Discovery perfectly:
Full with plot holes that lead to some very impressive scenes.

So a tiny little Michael can fight a Klingon leader in hand to hand combat, after she had easily accessed A Kilngon ship bridge (during a battle alert nevertheless).

Yup, just like all the times Kira and Dax were able to fight and kill Klingons.

An officer with PTSD is still free to run around the brig (where there are no other guards)

The brig on DS9 was often not attended by guards either. But it had cameras/monitors, which Discovery probably had too.

An obsessive captain asks an officer to potentially sacrifice himself following a rather crazy plan
They keep a Klingon POW in precious Discovery instead of sending her in a star base to be interrogated etc etc.

Stamets insisted that he do the last jump. Lorca didn't ask him to.

Discovery was heading to Starbase 46, so it makes sense to have them transport L'Rell.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I realise this is an American show and hence is likely to use American terms, but rape cannot be committed by someone unequipped with a penis in my UK centred view, so the absence of the term didn't seem odd.

I agree that it is brave to do a PTSD story about sexual torture of a male, in really hoping they don't undo it with a 'surprise' Voq reveal. I'm holding out hope it's been misdirection, or is at least cleverer than I'm imagining.

I've grown to like and look forward to a lot of conversation points you drop, but I may be misreading your comment, cause this one is head scratching to me.

I dunno much about the UK as I've never been, But I know I'm not a typical knucklehead yank, I am absolutely certain, a woman can rape a man. A man having an erection is simply a matter of certain physical stimulation, it absolutely can happen against a man's will, though not common it's not impossible or difficult.

also, there the is concept of force through threat. If one was told "sex or death" I would consider that rape, forcing someone to have sex against their will, and I would say death is an unreasonable consequence, and count that as force.

 

[jaime]

What? Someone being forced to have sex against their will under penalty of death isn't rape because of their gender? I'm from the UK too and that just sounds insane to me.

It sounds insane to me too..except it’s not the first time I have heard it. But yeah..basically, in the uk, rape is only rape if the person instigating it in some way penetrates the other. Lack of consent alone doesn’t make it rape apparently. It’s very wrong, but it’s certainly either true of our law, or something so widely believed that I have heard people say that statement out loud to people to tell them they haven’t been raped ‘because women can’t rape men’ (females, plural, saying this to a Male.) after they had been through some unpleasant circumstances to say the least. It’s head spinningly mental, mind boggling in its sexism, but there we go.

 

[starri]

Stamets insisted that he do the last jump. Lorca didn't ask him to.

In the sense that he didn’t say “Paul, could you do us a solid and jump us back to Starbase 46?” But he definitely put the idea out there.

 

[Vger23]

I've grown to like and look forward to a lot of conversation points you drop, but I may be misreading your comment, cause this one is head scratching to me.

I dunno much about the UK as I've never been, But I know I'm not a typical knucklehead yank, I am absolutely certain, a woman can rape a man. A man having an erection is simply a matter of certain physical stimulation, it absolutely can happen against a man's will, though not common it's not impossible or difficult.

also, there the is concept of force through threat. If one was told "sex or death" I would consider that rape, forcing someone to have sex against their will, and I would say death is an unreasonable consequence, and count that as force.

Not to get too dark or graphic here (because this is pretty heavy lifting for a fun Star Trek board) but there certainly are other ways a female can "violate" or "molest" a male sexually without classic intercourse being necessary, and it can be just as psychologically damaging.

Ok...let's talk about spore drives and alternate universes now, please!!!!!!

 

[Timo]

That's the cool thing - there are half a dozen instances where we can argue Lorca is a master manipulator, or then extremely lucky in having people behave in a way advantageous to him.

Here it's doubly ambiguous as we don't know for sure if the outcome was advantageous to Lorca...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[cgervasi]

I can imagine in the future a mutiny having a life sentence isn't all that crazy. I mean she knocked out her captain and ordered her crew to fire, unprovoked, on an alien ship.

Then after she said she understood killing T'Kuvma would make him a martyr and start a bloody war she kills T'Kuvma. This comes after she committed mutiny and tried to fire on a Klingon ship, an act the captain believed might start a war. To someone reading the reports, it looks like she was angry about the Klingon raid that killed her parents and wanted to start a war.

 

[dahj]

Stamets insisted that he do the last jump. Lorca didn't ask him to.

Stamets did want to do it, I guess to "see the stars" from that perspective one last time, but Lorca's approach there was totally meant to manipulate him into doing it in case he wasn't so inclined.

 

[Vger23]

In the sense that he didn’t say “Paul, could you do us a solid and jump us back to Starbase 46?” But he definitely put the idea out there.

The simplest explanations are sometimes (more often than not) the correct ones.

Is Lorca a highly calculated, evil, manipulative, Section 31ish, mirror-verse, Klingon Agent bad guy? Or is he just some dude that went through a terrible trauma and is trying to make it up now...and he just happened to offer to return to Starbase at warp rather than jump to save the health of his officer...with no malicious intent or manipulation?

I dunno....I think I'm going for the latter here. Sometimes a rock is just a rock, folks.

 

[Vger23]

Stamets did want to do it, I guess to "see the stars" from that perspective one last time, but Lorca's approach there was totally meant to manipulate him into doing it in case he wasn't so inclined.

I totally disagree. Lorca's first course of action was to return to Starbase via standard Warp Drive. He had no guarantee that Stamets would offer to do a jump.

 

[cgervasi]

Not to get too dark or graphic here (because this is pretty heavy lifting for a fun Star Trek board) but there certainly are other ways a female can "violate" or "molest" a male sexually without classic intercourse being necessary, and it can be just as psychologically damaging.

I remembered how the Klingons would make one prison choose another prison to beat, sometimes to death. When they came in to beat someone, you didn't know if someone was going to die horribly, maybe on the floor of the ship with a rip producing from the skin and lung filling with blood-- just ghastly stuff. Last night's show showed they also did horrific torture, not just random lethal beatings.

In that context, I assume Ash Tyler had to do some disgusting things for L'Rell to stay alive. They made it look like she made him her boyfriend, but that didn't ring true.

The show was ambiguous, though. Maybe he sweet talked her and let her play like she was his boyfriend or beloved pet.

Or maybe she brainwashed him and the sexual assault is just a cover to explain why he survived and spent time with L'Rell.

 

[Captain pl1ngpl0ng]

One thing i dont quite get is the Saving Pahvo deal .. Was the planet ever in any danger?

And why was the pahvans so important to protect (at first)? But then...

- After the Ship Of The Dead was destroyed, the crew on Discovery learn that a pack of angry klingons are coming, heading for their location.
So they takes of...

When those klingons arrive on pahvo and see a debris field of
dead klingons and the remains of the ship in orbit around the planet, wouldnt they pose just as big of a treath to the pahvans?

- How could the klingons harm a non-corporeal lifeform in the first place?

Maby im missing something...

 

[XCV330]

Not to get too dark or graphic here (because this is pretty heavy lifting for a fun Star Trek board) but there certainly are other ways a female can "violate" or "molest" a male sexually without classic intercourse being necessary, and it can be just as psychologically damaging.

Ok...let's talk about spore drives and alternate universes now, please!!!!!!

It would be cool to see a parallel reality besides the mirror universe. If they are going to have a multiverse, think big.

 

[Romulan_spy]

To me, Lorca comes across as a guy who will use questionable means in order to achieve a greater good. We see that on display in this episode. He was motivated to save Pahvo and help the Federation defeat the Klingons which are noble goals but in order to achieve said goals, pushed Stamets to do over 130 jumps which nearly killed him, and seems to be hiding some things from his own crew.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

It would be cool to see a parallel reality besides the mirror universe. If they are going to have a multiverse, think big.

I think a cool idea would be an accident, that brings multiple universes together, in an episode of confusion, akin to a ball moving between three cups with slight of hand,

which captain is MY captain? which doctor is MY doctor? maybe where someone ultra confused like Ash, has to piece a crew back together.