Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x01 - "The Vulcan Hello"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Oh man, too much to read! I wish this would have already been available on Netflix when all you guys were watching it. It's much more fun to join in such threads live instead of hours later.
Overall my impressions are positive. I'm not as wowed as I wished I would be, but I liked it. I mirror what others have said, this should really have been one long episode instead of two spread across two platforms. I can't imagine that non-fans would want to pay for CBSAA after seeing that first part. Also, I can't really separate them in my head when I'm trying to review them.
All the characters and actor performances are cool – I especially liked Doug Jones's Saru and Michelle Yeoh's Captain Georgiou. But the backstory of the Voq character sounds interesting, too.
That dialog though is really stiff, I agree with what many are saying here. Hopefully they'll be able to tone it down in the future, but here their words sounded way too unnatural.
I also thought that they overdid all the flashbacks. T'Kuvma's flashbacks seemed downright unnecessary. But then again, they had way too much Klingon stuff in the episode anyway. I feel this would have worked better if they focussed solely on the Starfleet side of things.
The biggest problem I had with the plot was the idea that Burnham's and Sarek's idea to handle the Klingon situation was to fire first. I have a hard time imagining that would have significantly changed the outcome.
So again, I liked the premiere, but I have a hard time giving it any score. Will watch it again tonight with my wife (I've watched the episodes at 9 o'clock in the morning in Germany) and think about a score then. I wonder what she will think about it.
Overall my impressions are positive. I'm not as wowed as I wished I would be, but I liked it. I mirror what others have said, this should really have been one long episode instead of two spread across two platforms. I can't imagine that non-fans would want to pay for CBSAA after seeing that first part. Also, I can't really separate them in my head when I'm trying to review them.
All the characters and actor performances are cool – I especially liked Doug Jones's Saru and Michelle Yeoh's Captain Georgiou. But the backstory of the Voq character sounds interesting, too.
That dialog though is really stiff, I agree with what many are saying here. Hopefully they'll be able to tone it down in the future, but here their words sounded way too unnatural.
I also thought that they overdid all the flashbacks. T'Kuvma's flashbacks seemed downright unnecessary. But then again, they had way too much Klingon stuff in the episode anyway. I feel this would have worked better if they focussed solely on the Starfleet side of things.
The biggest problem I had with the plot was the idea that Burnham's and Sarek's idea to handle the Klingon situation was to fire first. I have a hard time imagining that would have significantly changed the outcome.
Yeah, I was kinda surprised at that, too. It was interesting to see just how Vulcan she appeared when she arrived on the Shenzhou versus her behavior seven years later. I hope they'll show us some more flashbacks into how she changed in the span of all those years.
So again, I liked the premiere, but I have a hard time giving it any score. Will watch it again tonight with my wife (I've watched the episodes at 9 o'clock in the morning in Germany) and think about a score then. I wonder what she will think about it.
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Kids.
[Veruca Salt]"DADDY! I NEED $6 to see the other half of Star Trek NOW!"[/Veruca Salt]
[Veruca Salt]"DADDY! I NEED $6 to see the other half of Star Trek NOW!"[/Veruca Salt]
I think a lot of the dialogue was fine. There were even a few stand-outs. (Not many, granted.) But the stiff stuff really sticks out. Poor Michelle Yeoh with that line about the Vulcans choosing her because "I was a human being who had experienced so much loss but still hoped." Or however it went. No one talks like that unless they're reading their own page on Wikipedia.
There were also a couple of moments I laughed both times I watched the episodes with the Klingon speech. T'Kuvma had this thing at one point where he was saying "Remain Klingon" and he says "Klingon" in such a fashion that I just keel over. Chris Obi is given a couple of bad pieces to do his best with, intermixed with some genuinely good scenes where I feel like he came across a lot stronger. But, like, I get that Klingon's a "real" language and all but maybe take some liberties if you're going to make your villain say "oooh gooo umph" three times, slower each time, and dare me not to spill my beer.
That didn't actually happen, but I can't remember what it was that had me dying so we'll pretend it did.
There were also a couple of moments I laughed both times I watched the episodes with the Klingon speech. T'Kuvma had this thing at one point where he was saying "Remain Klingon" and he says "Klingon" in such a fashion that I just keel over. Chris Obi is given a couple of bad pieces to do his best with, intermixed with some genuinely good scenes where I feel like he came across a lot stronger. But, like, I get that Klingon's a "real" language and all but maybe take some liberties if you're going to make your villain say "oooh gooo umph" three times, slower each time, and dare me not to spill my beer.
That didn't actually happen, but I can't remember what it was that had me dying so we'll pretend it did.
The two answers that came to mind from the question "Why I took you?"
1. "No one else wanted you"
2. "Sarek and I bone from time to time."
1. "No one else wanted you"
2. "Sarek and I bone from time to time."
*whispers* I rather liked that line
But generally, I agree. There is some clunky-as-fuck dialogue there, especially in the desert scene. I get the impression they wrote, and filmed, that one first and possibly in a rush.
I'm assuming that that means that Pippa lost a child at some point, and that this orphan is supposed to be a replacement.
The desert scene dialogue was almost as rough as its weird mix version in the trailer where Yeoh's line is clearly from two or three different moments smacked together. The only real difference here tonight is that it was all one take. "It's hard to imagine you've been serving under me for seven years." Why is that hard to imagine? I presume it's because you, like us, are only just meeting your First Officer?
I assumed she was involved in a war of some kind, given what she said when Burnham said the crew was "ready." But I can't think of what war that would have been.
She's too young to have been a MACO like Edison.
She's too young to have been a MACO like Edison.
That desert dialogue was clunky as hell. It's all this "as you know" kinda bullshit that people who've spent any time together would never say.
They kept doing that, the "oh here's some information we both know so the audience can learn it" thing. Pilots are notoriously bad for that though, so I'm willing to accept it as a one off. What's annoying is that particular line was unnecessary - the later flashback establishes the timeframe.The desert scene dialogue was almost as rough as its weird mix version in the trailer where Yeoh's line is clearly from two or three different moments smacked together. The only real difference here tonight is that it was all one take. "It's hard to imagine you've been serving under me for seven years." Why is that hard to imagine? I presume it's because you, like us, are only just meeting your First Officer?
This is what I mean about the desert scene being unnecessary - there is nothing in it that we don't either relearn or see portrayed better later on. That's why I get the impression it was written and shot in a hurry early on and they felt they had to keep using it because it was expensive and in the trailers.
I really would not be surprised to learn you're right. They probably felt deeply committed to getting that hero shot of the insignia in the ground as a lead-in to the credits too. It's striking, I suppose.
I could deliver that line, I've said similar things in TNZ, and I've never fought in a war. She is just aware of the distinction between a simulation and war, while Burnham lacks the emotional intelligence to see the difference - to her, a crew tested under a battle simulation is the same as a crew tested in the field. The variables of human emotional reaction to reality over a test don't occur to her - they do to Georgiou.
Having said that, there have been pre-release hints that there is another war in the recent past of which some of our characters (including Lorca if memory serves) are veterans. Star Trek enjoys a recent war for its characters to talk about - see TNG and the Cardassian war, or DS9 and Wolf 359.
You know. I actually think the 7 years thing was intentional. I don't think it's a coincidence that it's the same number of years TNG was on the air. It was pretty obvious they were trying to riff on the Picard/Riker relationship. And, no, I don't think the Number One was an homage to Majel's character, despite how it was used more as a moniker (like Majel) instead of an affectionate nickname (like Riker).
I am of the humble personal opinion that next to "Encounter at Farpoint", "The Vulcan Hello/Battle at the Binary Stars" is frankly rather deeply in the pale moonlight.
Take away the fancy exterior, and the two don't compare. Both have their share of clunky dialog and awkward to poor delivery, but Farpoint has a well-structured story with thematic weight and gravitas.
This has Klingons speaking in tongues.
This has Klingons speaking in tongues.
I realise it has been a while, but I can't think of any previous Trek show that had a 'knock it out of the park' first episode. Most are lacklustre at best, and suffer many of the same problems The Vulcan Hello does - expositional clunky dialogue, characters not quite set yet, variable acting depending on the scene. TOS' was so bad they remade it. TNG's was two unconnected stories smooshed together and so far up itself it couldn't see daylight. DS9's was dismissed as cerebral and boring (and only really works in hindsight having seen the whole show), Voyager had a very weird disconnect between the hard-hitting script and the scrubbed-clean reality and undercut their own premise before the credits had rolled, and Enterprise introduced their captain as a racist ass and most of the rest of the cast as unlikeable buffoons. Pilots have never been Trek's strong suit. Although this was a 6 out of 10 for me, it's still top two pilots easy.
Yeah. But I felt her delivery had the weight of having "been there before."
I think that brings up the overall problem with the episode. There seems like there was a lot of confusion behind the scenes about what they wanted to say and what they wanted to show. I think the "too many cooks" plays into that.
I'm not always the biggest fan of DS9, but I think Emissary is mastercraft.
Many of the green screen shots were bad composed, the actors an the set often sticked out of the backdrop. Also the surface of the Shenzou looked to artificial and not like it was made out of
metal.
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