Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x01 - "The Vulcan Hello"

[CRM-114]

I haven't read through this whole thread so I don't know if anyone else has addressed it, but at the beginning of TVH, Burnham and Georgiou talk about not violating (at least, not directly) General Order 1, then proceed to undermine themselves by making their ship appear in the sky like Into Darkness. At the least, it demonstrates a certain willingness to set aside Starfleet's stated principles for "the greater good". However, that attitude becomes more problematic when it comes to dealing with an overtly hostile race like the Klingons.

There is no stated harm to providing the desert aliens with fresh water, but who knows the consequences of their choice? How does their appearance (and the appearance of the Shenzhou) affect this primitive race?

Ultimately, what matters is not the specific effect on this particular race, but the sort of effect that sort of attitude can have.

 

[Ithekro]

I think "We come in peace" would be like swearing to a Klingon. Blasphemy maybe?

 

[Smoked Salmon]

I haven't read through this whole thread so I don't know if anyone else has addressed it, but at the beginning of TVH, Burnham and Georgiou talk about not violating (at least, not directly) General Order 1, then proceed to undermine themselves by making their ship appear in the sky like Into Darkness. At the least, it demonstrates a certain willingness to set aside Starfleet's stated principles for "the greater good". However, that attitude becomes more problematic when it comes to dealing with an overtly hostile race like the Klingons.

There is no stated harm to providing the desert aliens with fresh water, but who knows the consequences of their choice? How does their appearance (and the appearance of the Shenzhou) affect this primitive race?

Ultimately, what matters is not the specific effect on this particular race, but the sort of effect that sort of attitude can have.

I agree...and it wasn't the ship appearing that bothered me about that scene. It was the creation of the well. That in itself was a breach of the prime directive. Little things like that are what make my think the show won't have the intelligence of previous Treks at their best.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I think "We come in peace" would be like swearing to a Klingon. Blasphemy maybe?

Yeah, maybe that's the issue.

And, geez, Louise, I agree with others that it's really hard to read what the Klingons are saying with the subtitles broken up into short phrases like that. I'm asleep before each sentence even finishes.

 

[cooleddie74]

I think "We come in peace" would be like swearing to a Klingon. Blasphemy maybe?

Hoshi Sato once said the Klingons probably don't have a word that means "thank you." It makes you wonder how they'd interpret "we come in peace," particulary as a race that comes from a martial and warrior culture that views peace negotiations through a very skeptical lens and surrender as a dishonorable act.

 

[cultcross]

Hoshi Sato once said the Klingons probably don't have a word that means "thank you."

Neither do the Dothraki. It's almost like these ridiculous warrior races are somewhat interchangeable isn't it? Nah.

 

[Borgminister]

"To serve Man"

 

[Captain Rob]

Not impressed at all.
A Second Officer/Science Officer whose major character trait is that he's a coward/chicken. Doesn't belong on the bridge of any starship let alone in Starfleet.
The Klingons have been changed to the point that they are impossibly clunky and can't possibly move.
The opening sequence was just silly. The First Officer doesn't notice that they have been changing directions during their walk? Stupid. Oh...but it looks cool from an aerial shot. Still stupid.
The First Officer goes on a extremely dangerous spacewalk that may kill her the longer she stays out. And the ship doesn't close the distance to the asteroid field to shorten her travel distance/time.
Windows on a starship bridge. Still a bad idea.
Camera shots that are crooked like they hired the old guy that did the badguy scenes for the old "Batman" TV series.
The overall pacing was painfully slow.
And the Sarek bit was stupid. A Galaxy of trillions if not hundreds of trillions of sentient lifeforms. and everyone still seems to know each other. W.T.F.?
Don't even expect me to pay to watch any more of this.
Star Trek in name only.

 

[Amaris]

Neither do the Dothraki. It's almost like these ridiculous warrior races are somewhat interchangeable isn't it? Nah.

Neither do people from Cleveland.

 

[JRTStarlight]

Well I didn't like, not only ST V, but Sybok. I refuse to accept that Spock has a brother. Now a having a sister, surrogate? like Burnham, not sure what she would be to Spock (I know not related, but Sarek's Ward) is another issue. I can accept Sarek taking Burnham into his home/family than Sybok anyday

Since Spock is already gone and serving under Pike, it might be logical that a human student might come to Sarek's attention, or Sarek be assigned the task of guidance, however minor, since he has experience with humans most vulcans don't (human wife and half human son). It's only logical. And since Spock and Sarek don't speak at this time, why would Spock know of Michael?

oh Thank you for reminding me which ep this dialog is from. Spock said he did try to teach Kirk the neck pinch and couldn't, they don't exactly elaborate as to why

In The Omega Glory they never say why Kirk was unable to learn the neck pinch– only he couldn't get the hang of it. I've always felt strength and precision was required to do a proper Vulcan nerve pinch. Michael did a poor job, considering how quickly the captain recovered. Data picked it up quickly, as one would expect one with his precision and strength to be able to do, but not if some mental psychic component were required. Spock even said he did it well. Any humans who did it, I don't recall how well they did it. Maybe like Michael, badly, and it didn't last more than a few minutes.

Honestly, my only real complaint with this pilot is that I don't buy the footsteps drawing out the Starfleet symbol in the desert sand didn't blow away immediately.

I felt it was too small to see from orbit much better than seeing them.

General Order 1, However, that attitude becomes more problematic when it comes to dealing with an overtly hostile race like the Klingons.

If you mean how General Order 1 applies to Klingons, it doesn't apply to warp capable civilizations. They have other rules about getting involved in civil wars or the like, but that's not general order 1.

 

[Borgminister]

ok, i'm inebriated.

 

[Noname Given]

I agree...and it wasn't the ship appearing that bothered me about that scene. It was the creation of the well. That in itself was a breach of the prime directive. Little things like that are what make my think the show won't have the intelligence of previous Treks at their best.

In the 23rd century, the Prime Directive wasn't as all encompassing as it was retconned into for TNG.

See TOS - "A Private Little War" where they talk about the fact that the Federation often made contact and required a report for a primitive planet to receive PD protection.

See TOS -"Friday's Child" for a primitive planet where the PD is waived because the Federation wants to mine a rare mineral used to run life support systems

TNG often wasn't much better as we'd usually get a situation like in 'Pen Pals' where Data or someone violates the PD - Picard sermonizes for 5 minutes ibn the Conference Room, and then they go and 'save' the Planet. <--- That's not 'intelligence' IMO.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

ok, i'm inebriated.

Star Trek: Discovery gets Trekkies drunk this Sunday, but is it good?
Deadline
September 24th, 2017 9:36PM

 

[Amaris]

In the 23rd century, the Prime Directive wasn't as all encompassing as it was retconned into for TNG.

See TOS - "A Private Little War" where they talk about the fact that the Federation often made contact and required a report for a primitive planet to receive PD protection.

See TOS -"Friday's Child" for a primitive planet where the PD is waived because the Federation wants to mine a rare mineral used to run life support systems

TNG often wasn't much better as we'd usually get a situation like in 'Pen Pals' where Data or someone violates the PD - Picard sermonizes for 5 minutes ibn the Conference Room, and then they go and 'save' the Planet. <--- That's not 'intelligence' IMO.

Pen Pals was a great episode. I'm glad as hell Data made an end run around the Prime Directive. Letting an entire planet of people die isn't civilized, it's allowing murder.

 

[JRTStarlight]

ok, i'm inebriated.

In a different reality, I would have bought a round for my friend.

 

[Noname Given]

Yeah, that was my afterthought. I guess that particular phrase (which just happens to be in English and not any other Federation language) is one they all know and ridicule?

It would have been clearer, if he'd said a few more words right after that in Klingon, that he was just speaking that one phrase in "human."

IDK - maybe the Klingon Language HAS NO literal translation for "We come in Peace" as Klingons never do.

 

[Red Shirt]

Well, that sucked. I would've been more entertained roasting marshmellons while singing row row your boat.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Were they playing with time, or did K'Tuvma say "we come in peace" before Michael did?

Oh.

We come if peace is half of an ancient saying.

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[Noname Given]

Pen Pals was a great episode. I'm glad as hell Data made an end run around the Prime Directive. Letting an entire planet of people die isn't civilized, it's allowing murder.

^^^
But what if said Civilization was MEANT to die - which is the mean tenant of the PD (because if they evolve they could do something that would harm others in the Galaxy.)

Of course there's also PD episodes like TNG's - "Justice" <--- Yeah, real intelligence on display there on the Planet of 'Victoria's Secret' models. Riker and Yar weren't smart enough to ask - "Hey if someone breaks a law here, what's the penalty?"

 

[cultcross]

But what if said Civilization was MEANT to die -

I always hated that aspect of the PD. In a future devoid of superstition and believing in free will and self determination, we're going to let this civilisation end because it was 'meant' to.

Oh you have a horrible disease? Don't worry, we'll fix that with tech while we're waiting for this civilisation to die off.

What if we were "meant" to save them? Part of our 'natural evolution' was being visited by Vulcans, maybe their natural evolution was meeting us?