Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
This is not TOS. This is a whole new experience.
It's time to let go of the old and embrace he new..
Might have been that he simply didn't care about the Franklin once he found the alien tech.
Yeah. That and he didn't see her as a threat. She was really afraid of him. She was probably cloaking it from the other aliens.
Or he abandoned ship long before it actually crashed, had no clue as to where it was, and just wrote it off.
Chekov actually questioned Kirk's decision to try and find the totalled Enterprise. Doesn't seem like it's normal procedure.
I agree completely. And theoretically, every time a character is not completely immobile is doing an action
I gave the movie a B-.
I love the first part of the movie at York Town, before the swarm. After that it became same old, same old. With strange plot points and unbelievable action sequences.
I thought the humour was quite nice, as well as the small character moments. The action was way too much and unclear. It was at times very difficult to follow. I loved how they put Nimoy's death into the movie and choked up when I saw the original cast photo. However, the destruction of the Enterprise (again) did nothing for me, presumably because I'm not emotionally invested in this one. It didn't seem the chracters themselves cared much for it anyway.
The villain was very unreal to me. His motives were very unclear and still are to me. I still don't understand how he transformed from being human to this Krall figure.
Personally, I didn't get a TOS feeling from this movie at all (am not a TOS fan), it felt like a summer blockbuster movie without much substance wrapped in a Star Trek blanket. From the outside it looks like a Star Trek movie, but from the inside it's rather hollow.
I wish the next one would focus more on the story and the characters and less on the action. Action is good, when it serves the plot. It shouldn't be the other way round in my opinion.
6/6.5 is what I would grade it.
I love the first part of the movie at York Town, before the swarm. After that it became same old, same old. With strange plot points and unbelievable action sequences.
I thought the humour was quite nice, as well as the small character moments. The action was way too much and unclear. It was at times very difficult to follow. I loved how they put Nimoy's death into the movie and choked up when I saw the original cast photo. However, the destruction of the Enterprise (again) did nothing for me, presumably because I'm not emotionally invested in this one. It didn't seem the chracters themselves cared much for it anyway.
The villain was very unreal to me. His motives were very unclear and still are to me. I still don't understand how he transformed from being human to this Krall figure.
Personally, I didn't get a TOS feeling from this movie at all (am not a TOS fan), it felt like a summer blockbuster movie without much substance wrapped in a Star Trek blanket. From the outside it looks like a Star Trek movie, but from the inside it's rather hollow.
I wish the next one would focus more on the story and the characters and less on the action. Action is good, when it serves the plot. It shouldn't be the other way round in my opinion.
6/6.5 is what I would grade it.
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Ok I haven't made a majorly long post on this board in a while (real life took over as it's wont to do), but I thought it was time I reviewed the new movie. I've already graded it (I gave it an A- after hemming and hawing a bit). I wanted to give it a B+ but my mixed-up feelings and confusion about whether or not it's better than ST09 made me demur a bit. In the end, I am ranking it the same -- I've actually forgotten how I graded that one... M might know -- because 1) it made my heart soar, 2) it made my heart beat faster, 3) it made the TOS-er, Niner, and the ENT-er inside me grin widely with the little gifties, and 4) it made me want to watch it again and again (something that was missing with STID).
So, having seen it twice so far (once from the last row and the second time from much closer to the screen), I would like to apologize to the people I had a bit of a spat with earlier (I think on another thread) re Justin Lin. He did a marvelous job handling the Pegg/Jung script (which was really what I was referring to in those posts, not the direction) that showed a basal yet emotive understanding of the nuances that belong to ALL Trek series (not just TOS). This was what seemed to be lacking in the last two movies (yes, even ST09, which I did like despite its multiple shortcomings and Nero). I know some of you love STID, and I'm sure you have your reasons, but it was just too much for me... and I've pretty much relegated it to non-existence in the Kelvin-verse. And ya know what? I don't miss it. (though I admit I gave both ST09 and STID a rewatch this week alongwith the six TOS movies).
Anyway, on to this one... do you guys remember the end of Shaun of the Dead when Simon Pegg's character sits in his toolshed and then the camera pans to his zombie buddy who's not quite-the-zombie? Well, halleluijah!! It's quite fitting that Trek's been de-zombified by Pegg et al. It's heart is beating and it's now alive.
I lost my beloved brother (my only sibling) last year and it's been a gut-wrenching and deadening experience. Watching old TOS episodes with my 80+ year-old dad this year was one of the ways I kept us both afloat. So, when I asked him last week -- "dad, do you wanna go see the new Trek movie with me?" (something my brother, my niece, my dad, and I traditionally did together), I was actually not surprised to see him nodding right away. And while we watched, I kept looking at my dad... (almost in disbelief that he was there with me) and I saw him -- for the first time in a long time -- leaning forward with his chin in his entwined hands and a little smile on his lips. He was enjoying himself. And so was I.
Trek was again doing what it always did: making us happy.
Isn't that the point of it all?
Okay, now the PROs:
It had wonderfully strong female characters (no bra-panty scenes this time around, thank the gods), and great little easter eggs done very well and with a light touch, not heavyhanded (Yorktown, the vodka, Balok, Kirk walking past a female crewmember w/o a second glance etc). Pine, Quinto, Urban, Yelchin were just sublime, and Uhura had a LOT MORE to do this time, thank the gods! (more on the Spock/Uhura thing later). Cho's Sulu family reveal was very tastefully done and Jaylah was extremely watchable in her strength AND childlike innocence (loved the actress in Kingsman, but she was absolutely luminous here). Loved the absent friends toast and the photograph (way to get a Shatman cameo in, guys!). Loved all the aforementioned easter eggs including Kirk's log about 966 days in space, the NX jacket, Sabotage as Kirk's song - as in he's been sabotaging himself in his earlier life and then finally turns it around. The destruction of the ship was (in contrast with the TSFS destruction) incredibly visceral, piece by long and harrowing piece, its demise an unexpected treat combined with the desperation of the crew reflected in an almost human attempt made by the machine itself to preserve itself amidst its last gasp - so good; as Spock said, they were unequipped to deal with this type of an engagement. This is actually the ONLY time I felt something when seeing the Enterprise go down since TSFS (that one reached out and grabbed me by the throat with the recitation of the self-destruct code). The GENERATIONS crash did nothing for me.
Anyway, for the first time, the Kelvin-verse felt real - just like the ship, the cast and the supporting characters and structures all felt three-dimensional and flesh and blood rather than celluoid - I didn't feel this for any TNG movie or for STID. ST09 approached this but possibly the lens flares interfered. Heh.
In terms of the Spock/Uhura dynamic - I am actually really glad they "ended things' early in the movie, and the little tracking device joke played its part, and got the requisite laughs. But, unlike some friends, I don't think it's really "over" at the end of the movie. Rather, it's changed dynamics and gotten an upgrade. Pegg is a very canny writer when it comes to male-female relationships on-screen and he knows romance in Trek has its own pitfalls (traditionally), esp when it comes to a longer-running romance between crew-members. On top of which you have Spock -- SPOCK!! -- in an ongoing, long-term romance. It would take very skilled scripting and directing to make this believable AND palatable, and I would actually prefer the kind of dynamic between Spock and Uhura that results from THIS "breakup" than the whole lovey-dovey thing they had going earlier. That took away from both characters and was just not conducive to building an ensemble piece IF they wanted to keep both characters true to their core traits. I actually don't mind if they get them back together, but the path should be bumpy and unpredictable, not cloying and humdrum. These two are extraordinary characters. Please keep them that way even in their interactions with each other.
McCoy left me a bit underwhelmed this time, but because TOS has always been (when all is said and done) about Kirk and Spock and their dual dynamic/journeys, I'm willing to wait. Interestingly, McCoy and his popularity actually grew not as much through the writing as through Kelley's interpretation of it, witness Kelley's name appearing in the main credits in the second season on TOS. As such, we never really KNEW that much about him. The tidbits about the failed marriage and his daughter (Joanna) was all in the literature, not the show/movies. And this plays to what i really love about Kelvin-verse (and have since ST09): TPTB's willingness to consider and pull in little factoids aka "gems" from Trek Lit and canonize them. THAT is why I jumped into it with both feet...
The other big pro (and my last plus-point) is how TPTB treated Nimoy and Yelchin's passing. I bid a sad goodbye to Nimoy and Anton. You will be sorely missed. Both my dad and i shed a tear at the "photograph" and the "absent friends" tributes.
Now, to the CONS. These will be quick points:
-Camera work too jumpy and shaky
-Screen too dark in some scenes
-The action scenes felt unending at times
-Krall's motivation could have been a little more clear at the outset, despite the need for secrecy re the twist
-My suggestion to some folk who wear glasses would be to try to watch this in 2D at least once. I wore my glasses during 3D and it was excruciating. Then I wore my contacts to the subsequent 2D showing. Oh well.
-NO title card at the beginning of the movie?! WTH? Big disappointment. I waited for the thing for two years
-Cupcake missing and also no Carol Marcus with no explanation or even a shout-out. Didn't she join the Enterprise crew at the end of STID? What happened? Kirk and she broke up and she transferred out? Are we to assume a little David will be sprung on us in STIV? Ugh.
-Dialogue was sometimes difficult to understand as there was a lot of mumbling going on amidst the sound effects
-Pacing too fast during the action
-Space sequences too dark and hard to follow at times (did I say that one already?)
-The USS Franklin's registry number (NX-324) is really confusing, although someone made a point about the ENT naming/numbering - so I'm now realizing the SF reg. numbers are probably not sequential
-While I loved Bones and Kirk having a drink together (nostalgic TOS throwback!), I'd have wanted a closeup of Pine's face as he swallowed the vodka, just to see if he could make the faces Shatner used to make whenever he did that on screen to show his appreciation of whatever he was drinking
That's pretty much it for now... will be watching it at least twice before it goes away... perhaps will have more to add. A lot was packed into it and, all things considered, it was very enjoyable. A valiant attempt by TPTB and the cast to take us back to the star trek of yore.
alright, LLAP, y'all
So, having seen it twice so far (once from the last row and the second time from much closer to the screen), I would like to apologize to the people I had a bit of a spat with earlier (I think on another thread) re Justin Lin. He did a marvelous job handling the Pegg/Jung script (which was really what I was referring to in those posts, not the direction) that showed a basal yet emotive understanding of the nuances that belong to ALL Trek series (not just TOS). This was what seemed to be lacking in the last two movies (yes, even ST09, which I did like despite its multiple shortcomings and Nero). I know some of you love STID, and I'm sure you have your reasons, but it was just too much for me... and I've pretty much relegated it to non-existence in the Kelvin-verse. And ya know what? I don't miss it. (though I admit I gave both ST09 and STID a rewatch this week alongwith the six TOS movies).
Anyway, on to this one... do you guys remember the end of Shaun of the Dead when Simon Pegg's character sits in his toolshed and then the camera pans to his zombie buddy who's not quite-the-zombie? Well, halleluijah!! It's quite fitting that Trek's been de-zombified by Pegg et al. It's heart is beating and it's now alive.
I lost my beloved brother (my only sibling) last year and it's been a gut-wrenching and deadening experience. Watching old TOS episodes with my 80+ year-old dad this year was one of the ways I kept us both afloat. So, when I asked him last week -- "dad, do you wanna go see the new Trek movie with me?" (something my brother, my niece, my dad, and I traditionally did together), I was actually not surprised to see him nodding right away. And while we watched, I kept looking at my dad... (almost in disbelief that he was there with me) and I saw him -- for the first time in a long time -- leaning forward with his chin in his entwined hands and a little smile on his lips. He was enjoying himself. And so was I.
Trek was again doing what it always did: making us happy.
Isn't that the point of it all?
Okay, now the PROs:
It had wonderfully strong female characters (no bra-panty scenes this time around, thank the gods), and great little easter eggs done very well and with a light touch, not heavyhanded (Yorktown, the vodka, Balok, Kirk walking past a female crewmember w/o a second glance etc). Pine, Quinto, Urban, Yelchin were just sublime, and Uhura had a LOT MORE to do this time, thank the gods! (more on the Spock/Uhura thing later). Cho's Sulu family reveal was very tastefully done and Jaylah was extremely watchable in her strength AND childlike innocence (loved the actress in Kingsman, but she was absolutely luminous here). Loved the absent friends toast and the photograph (way to get a Shatman cameo in, guys!). Loved all the aforementioned easter eggs including Kirk's log about 966 days in space, the NX jacket, Sabotage as Kirk's song - as in he's been sabotaging himself in his earlier life and then finally turns it around. The destruction of the ship was (in contrast with the TSFS destruction) incredibly visceral, piece by long and harrowing piece, its demise an unexpected treat combined with the desperation of the crew reflected in an almost human attempt made by the machine itself to preserve itself amidst its last gasp - so good; as Spock said, they were unequipped to deal with this type of an engagement. This is actually the ONLY time I felt something when seeing the Enterprise go down since TSFS (that one reached out and grabbed me by the throat with the recitation of the self-destruct code). The GENERATIONS crash did nothing for me.
Anyway, for the first time, the Kelvin-verse felt real - just like the ship, the cast and the supporting characters and structures all felt three-dimensional and flesh and blood rather than celluoid - I didn't feel this for any TNG movie or for STID. ST09 approached this but possibly the lens flares interfered. Heh.
In terms of the Spock/Uhura dynamic - I am actually really glad they "ended things' early in the movie, and the little tracking device joke played its part, and got the requisite laughs. But, unlike some friends, I don't think it's really "over" at the end of the movie. Rather, it's changed dynamics and gotten an upgrade. Pegg is a very canny writer when it comes to male-female relationships on-screen and he knows romance in Trek has its own pitfalls (traditionally), esp when it comes to a longer-running romance between crew-members. On top of which you have Spock -- SPOCK!! -- in an ongoing, long-term romance. It would take very skilled scripting and directing to make this believable AND palatable, and I would actually prefer the kind of dynamic between Spock and Uhura that results from THIS "breakup" than the whole lovey-dovey thing they had going earlier. That took away from both characters and was just not conducive to building an ensemble piece IF they wanted to keep both characters true to their core traits. I actually don't mind if they get them back together, but the path should be bumpy and unpredictable, not cloying and humdrum. These two are extraordinary characters. Please keep them that way even in their interactions with each other.
McCoy left me a bit underwhelmed this time, but because TOS has always been (when all is said and done) about Kirk and Spock and their dual dynamic/journeys, I'm willing to wait. Interestingly, McCoy and his popularity actually grew not as much through the writing as through Kelley's interpretation of it, witness Kelley's name appearing in the main credits in the second season on TOS. As such, we never really KNEW that much about him. The tidbits about the failed marriage and his daughter (Joanna) was all in the literature, not the show/movies. And this plays to what i really love about Kelvin-verse (and have since ST09): TPTB's willingness to consider and pull in little factoids aka "gems" from Trek Lit and canonize them. THAT is why I jumped into it with both feet...
The other big pro (and my last plus-point) is how TPTB treated Nimoy and Yelchin's passing. I bid a sad goodbye to Nimoy and Anton. You will be sorely missed. Both my dad and i shed a tear at the "photograph" and the "absent friends" tributes.
Now, to the CONS. These will be quick points:
-Camera work too jumpy and shaky
-Screen too dark in some scenes
-The action scenes felt unending at times
-Krall's motivation could have been a little more clear at the outset, despite the need for secrecy re the twist
-My suggestion to some folk who wear glasses would be to try to watch this in 2D at least once. I wore my glasses during 3D and it was excruciating. Then I wore my contacts to the subsequent 2D showing. Oh well.
-NO title card at the beginning of the movie?! WTH? Big disappointment. I waited for the thing for two years
-Cupcake missing and also no Carol Marcus with no explanation or even a shout-out. Didn't she join the Enterprise crew at the end of STID? What happened? Kirk and she broke up and she transferred out? Are we to assume a little David will be sprung on us in STIV? Ugh.
-Dialogue was sometimes difficult to understand as there was a lot of mumbling going on amidst the sound effects
-Pacing too fast during the action
-Space sequences too dark and hard to follow at times (did I say that one already?)
-The USS Franklin's registry number (NX-324) is really confusing, although someone made a point about the ENT naming/numbering - so I'm now realizing the SF reg. numbers are probably not sequential
-While I loved Bones and Kirk having a drink together (nostalgic TOS throwback!), I'd have wanted a closeup of Pine's face as he swallowed the vodka, just to see if he could make the faces Shatner used to make whenever he did that on screen to show his appreciation of whatever he was drinking
That's pretty much it for now... will be watching it at least twice before it goes away... perhaps will have more to add. A lot was packed into it and, all things considered, it was very enjoyable. A valiant attempt by TPTB and the cast to take us back to the star trek of yore.
alright, LLAP, y'all
are you saying that they can be a couple but they should never show them being a couple?
I tried my best to get what's some trek fans problem with the romance is but years later it still seems to me that most of it comes down to a fixation some people have that these characters (Spock especially) should be asexuate beings, in spite of canon never supporting that idea to begin with (even if the cultural mindset of the 60s no doubt makes original trek come across as very conservative in some aspects compared to nowadays standards..)
In reality people have friendships and people have romantic relationships. It's life. You give relationships, of any kind, to your characters to make them more real and relatable and show different layers of them. If you don't have a problem with Spock (and Uhura) and the other characters in the first scenario (thus them being affected by platonic relationships), you shouldn't have a problem with the second.
Truth is, 'nerdy friend Spock' and 'single forever Uhura' would be nothing new to add at this point after 50 years of trek where they had been exactly that.
no more difficult than writing a believable long lasting 'bromance' with him, honestly. and I think the movies did a good job so far with both kind of dynamics.
Honestly, when he's at times written more 'out of character' and emotional with the dudes than with his girlfriend, it begs the question why it's only one kind of 'emotion' directed at a woman that is apparently deemed as problematic for him (and the crew dynamic apparently!) but the rest is not. Outside of tos nostalgia for 'only male bonding matters', there is no objective reason for me why one is a hindrance while the bromances are not.
Ironically, if you can see this Spock in the 'bromances' people praise in the reboot (that they are themselves DIFFERENT compared to the tos dynamics) it's in part thank to the character development resulting from the Spock/Uhura relationship. What makes this Spock a bit more open to friendship too in a way he never was in tos (at a point of his life where other Spock would be ashamed to even consider Kirk or Bones his friends) and more embracing of his human side too, and essentially accelerated his emotional development (that took tos Spock many years to reach) is the fact that he fell in love with Uhura (someone who is as logical as he is, but still embraces her feelings) and was challenged and compelled to make a relationship work with her. Even Spock's conversation with Sarek in the first movie when the latter admits he loved Amanda would lack ulterior subtext if Spock hadn't, himself, fallen in love with a human and could thus understand his father. In that scene the implication being that his feelings are NOT, in fact, just human (because vulcans actually have feelings too. But did tos Spock know that at this point of his life?) and he has proof of that in ways Tos Spock never could in the context of HIS story. In my opinion that was a big turning point for his character and something that set in place one of the biggest differences between this Spock and the other. This Spock is far more balanced and less on denial about his human side and feelings and this no doubt affects the 'bromances' too and adds different layers to them too. I could never imagine Tos Spock having with McCoy some of the scenes that new Spock had with him in this movie (e.g., him talking about Uhura or the death of Spock Prime). People seem to be ok with him 'emoting' with both kirk and mccoy in ways very different than how he did in tos, and yet they harpy on every hint of emotion from him for the woman that essentially contributed to accelerate his character development that way and make him realize some things sooner than tos Spock ever did.
____________________
as for whatever they are 'over' in the end: everyone I know and even people who are bad with subtext think it's clear in the end that they are back together.
She's wearing his necklace and playing with it, she calls him 'old romantic' and he pretty much says he went to the party only to spend time with her. There is a both in text and in subtext intention that is reinforced by the look Mccoy gives to them and then later when she brings him the drink and they look at each other in this kind of 'lovey dovey' way while the others are looking at the enterprise.
But the truth is, the moment the narrative provides context for the break up and you are told by Spock himself that they are separated only because he was thinking about leaving starfleet to help the vulcans, in the end it's kind of a simple assumption to make that as Spock stays he also reprises his relationship with her. There is no reason why he shouldn't do that especially when the love is obviously still there and the thing that was keeping them separated becomes a moot point. Unless, well, you think Spock hadn't actually decided to stay and he'll still leave them all.. but that seems to go against the resolution of his whole arc in the movie culminating with him looking at the picture of the old crew.
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I think you need to re-watch Star Trek 2009. The middle 45mins of that film has no action whatsoever.
I have no problem with the Spock/Uhura romance. It has its basis in early TOS and even if it didn't, I'd be okay with it. Had they broken up for good in Beyond, that would be fine for me too. But it's fine for me that they are together. It's irrelevant personally for the reasons I like the Kelvin Films. But I respect and appreciate that there are fans who do enjoy that aspect of the films.
I saw Beyond on at midnight opening day and pretty much everything has already been said by other people so all I'm going to add is my experience - I watched it with a good friend at my local cinema which had set up a marathon of all three JJ-verse films and there were two things about Beyond that stood out to me compared to the first two.
The Pacing: waaay different to the first two. It really threw me actually, and it took the first act of the film for me to get my head to slow down with it. I will definitely be watching it again soon because while I thoroughly enjoyed the character moments and dialogue at the start, it was difficult to appreciate because my head was screaming "This isn't right!!! It's too slow!!" after the lightning pace I was used to.
The Music: I am so jealous of everyone who got to see it with a live orchestra because holy crap the score is great. But all three films with all their incredible pieces? Brilliant. In Dolby X-Plus sound with a music student friend was a fantastic choice on my part because it was incredible to hear. Those familiar notes had my heart soaring every time.
The Pacing: waaay different to the first two. It really threw me actually, and it took the first act of the film for me to get my head to slow down with it. I will definitely be watching it again soon because while I thoroughly enjoyed the character moments and dialogue at the start, it was difficult to appreciate because my head was screaming "This isn't right!!! It's too slow!!" after the lightning pace I was used to.
The Music: I am so jealous of everyone who got to see it with a live orchestra because holy crap the score is great. But all three films with all their incredible pieces? Brilliant. In Dolby X-Plus sound with a music student friend was a fantastic choice on my part because it was incredible to hear. Those familiar notes had my heart soaring every time.
I still don't understand people saying it was non-stop action. It was paced well and I was kind of surprised that it didn't open with a set-piece action scene like the previous two movies.
I don't think I mentioned my theater experience at all yet. It was totally different from my previous two NuTrek movies. ST09 was one of the best movie experiences I had. Full crowd, very responsive and in awe of this new Trek world. STID had a full IMAX house and again was very responsive. ST;Beyond had a 1/4 full audience and although there was some laughing, it was a quiet crowd. Almost everyone clapped at the end though and no one left till after the Anton/Nimoy dedication.
I don't think I mentioned my theater experience at all yet. It was totally different from my previous two NuTrek movies. ST09 was one of the best movie experiences I had. Full crowd, very responsive and in awe of this new Trek world. STID had a full IMAX house and again was very responsive. ST;Beyond had a 1/4 full audience and although there was some laughing, it was a quiet crowd. Almost everyone clapped at the end though and no one left till after the Anton/Nimoy dedication.
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STID opens with an action set-piece which results in Kirk getting the ship taken away and develops Spock later. 09's opener sets up quite a bit, we get the villain introduction and the situation which later draws Kirk into the main story. Beyond's opener isn't related much to the action that follows aside from introducing the artifact thingy.
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Another big problem of Star Trek movies
They cost a fortune to make so they have to do incredible at the box office
Something like Bourne only costs 100 million (with half going to title actors)
I'm going to see it again in 3d this weekend just so I can say I saw it... checkout my review and go see it too if you want more Star Trek
They cost a fortune to make so they have to do incredible at the box office
Something like Bourne only costs 100 million (with half going to title actors)
I'm going to see it again in 3d this weekend just so I can say I saw it... checkout my review and go see it too if you want more Star Trek
The life extending tech probably messed with his mind
The way that Vader doesn't like to think of his past... someone like Krall, after abandoning all his morals and so on wouldn't like to think of his past at all, only his hatred for the Federation and broad strokes
Easy to forget especially if you want to
No, all I am saying is to write it so that it's not so drippy. Making kissy-face on the bridge and in the transporter room is not my idea of two professionals. That's the kind of thing two high school kids would do to SHOW others that they're together. It was fine for the first movie because WE needed to know that fact (rather than seeing them in bed together which we all know won't happen 'cos it's Trek lol), but we now know that it's happened and they can darned well say their goodbyes in their quarters.
I want their relationship to be written in a mature manner... which actually DID happen in this movie. That's why I said that at the back end of ST:B I didn't feel that they'd actually broken up, but that the relationship had gotten an upgrade. There are ways of writing a romance in the sci fi genre (which has a varied audience) that won't turn people off and build attachment, chemistry, progression. I am hoping that if we DO get another movie in K-verse, SP/Uh will be handled that way.
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