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If you watch the scene in context, it isn't twisting anything. David is concerned that Starfleet will take Genesis from them and turn it into a weapon, bellowing: "Scientists have always been pawns of the military!" His mother replies that she "cannot and will not subscribe" to that interpretation. But in any case, she would only have been repeating a claim that had been made and refuted previously. And besides, "keeping the peace" would be exactly what Starfleet considered itself to be doing in fighting the Klingon War! The aggression was the Klingons', and the Feds merely defended themselves against it, in order to preserve their "peaceful" way of life.
-MMoM
Yeah... Not buying that interpretation at all. That goes all the way back to the first time I saw TWoK. I think most folks interpreted the line as there hasn't been a war in a hundred years. Wink-nodding the Romulan war that Earth fought a bit more than a century prior.
I never said there was. I said that nothing that actually got said onscreen—which is what counts, not the obsolete intent of people who no longer have anything to do with producing Star Trek shows or movies—precluded it. It was never made clear that such a war didn't happen. That's the relevant standard here.
Haters gonna hate...
-MMoM
"Depredation" has a specific meaning, and that meaning isn't full out war.
There is no relevant standard, the Discovery folks are going to do what they want. "Prime" is a marketing gimmick.
I think the problem really is the scale of the war. Short and bloody border skirmish I could buy, but a huge war where the Klingons occupy large chunks of the Federation, destroy most of the fleet and are moments away from attacking the Earth and basically about to destroy the whole Federation is a stretch. Though of course in an episode before we learned all this the Discovery saved the entire multiverse, so I guess I should have not expected restraint...
You're saying that the actions of the Klingons as depicted in DSC could not be accurately (nor even poetically) described as depredations?
OK man, whatevs.
-MMoM
Season three: Spock has six kids by six different women. The Prime crowd: "Well, there's nothing there that prevents it!!!"
The only thing I've learned from my time here is that the term "Prime" is more important than the content for many folks. It is more important for them to have their collective egos stroked by CBS than to actually have stories that make sense within the context of the Prime universe.
And CBS knows this. Which is why you have Kurtzman sometimes slip when talking about whether or not the characters from "The Cage" exist in "our timeline".
The only thing I've learned from my time here is that the term "Prime" is more important than the content for many folks. It is more important for them to have their collective egos stroked by CBS than to actually have stories that make sense within the context of the Prime universe.
And CBS knows this. Which is why you have Kurtzman sometimes slip when talking about whether or not the characters from "The Cage" exist in "our timeline".
It would be utterly laughable for someone to claim ten yeas after WWII that there has been peace in Europe for decades. It would be blatantly absurd statement. Now if someone today would say that EU has ensured peace in Europe for decades, it would not be true, and you could say 'What about Bosnia?' but it would not be totally crazy thing to say and would be mostly true, if not technically completely true.
Are you shitting me?
No. I would not be okay with that. Canon or no canon. Prime or no Prime.
Real world is different. I think the more relevant thing would be another Romulan war between the 2160's and 2260's. But it would just be more lawyer ball from the Prime crowd: "Well, that was the Earth/Romulan war! No one said anything about there not being a Federation/Romulan war!"
Which was exactly Keniclius' point!
Oh, and when exactly did you guys think those "decades of war" Picard cited in "First Contact" (TNG) took place? Obviously not between ENT and TOS by your reckoning, nor between TOS and TWOK, because Starfleet had "kept the peace" for all that time, right? And there's only a decade at best between TWOK and TUC...so then...war after that, in the early 24th century? (I guess it's possible, without having checked for direct refutations.) Or TNG isn't Prime either?
-MMoM
I'm not talking about every Prime fan. We all make allowances sometimes to make things fit that otherwise wouldn't. But Discovery really is pushing the envelope. I don't think the behind-the-scenes crew take the Prime timeline as seriously as CBS is pushing it.
You should've said Kirk. That at least would've been believable.
I disagree. They seem to care a great deal with the actual lore.
When Discovery comes back and we find out that nine months have passed and Starfleet has lost a heavy percentage of the fleet....that's magnitude.
That is certainly going to still be fresh in people's minds 9-10 years later.
It wasn't that way in TOS.
They did it in Discovery.
So, syncing up with canon is going to be that much more of a stretch.
Nothing in TOS contradicts the war.
I'm seriously not seeing it. I just see a group of people who bought a Star Trek Encyclopedia.
Common sense contradicts it.
Ayelbourne: "Do you people have no fucking common sense? You just fought a war eight years ago. Kirk you're Federation nearly got its ass kicked, and your Starfleet was pushed all the way to your doorstep. Saved by magic not even we could fucking dream up. Why are you still fucking with the Klingons?"
Maybe not in the most utterly technical sense, but in terms of plausibility....it sure bends that over backwards.
Is Kurtzman a fan of dancing the limbo?
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