It's a namedrop. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
.
.
.
And I'm done with this shift. Hey! CBS All Access? Did I earn my pay for the day? Thanks! I'm going to milk this joke for all it's worth...
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- Thread starter Vger23
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It's a namedrop. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
.
.
.
And I'm done with this shift. Hey! CBS All Access? Did I earn my pay for the day? Thanks! I'm going to milk this joke for all it's worth...
Picard isn’t Sisko’s dad though is he. He didn’t literally leave a chunk of his soul in Sisko. There’s not three episodes, and that’s being kind, dedicated to that aspect of the story. It’s not the single most defining aspect of Siskos character, his relationship with Picard or even the Borg. That’s the difference here. XD
Why does it muddy the waters? To the Feds ( and the Klingons) the Organians are a primitive pre warp, semi-Medieval culture of no particular importance.
But that's not what they turned out to be at the end of 'Errand of Mercy'.
They prevented the war.
Discovery has a war with the Klingons that TOS did not have. They make one mention of Organia, but there is no purpose to it because they don't do anything with it.
It doesn't make any sense.
Just one more thing to try to explain away in season 2.
No particular importance except that their planet is "located on the natural invasion routes" between the Klingon Empire and the Federation!
-MMoM
[ETA: this post initially accidentally contained portions of another unrelated reply that I'm not finished composing yet, which I have removed. I'll get back to it later. Sorry for any confusion.]
The thing about Sybok, he was never pitched as the reason Spock is Spock. Sure, he's a half-brother, but it is clear he doesn't really know Spock. Even then, I was never happy with the idea of the surprise half-brother we never heard about.
I don't think these writers earned bolting their new character onto a fifty year legacy of the character or TOS. Could they have earned that? Yep. They could've been subtle over the first couple of seasons, maybe left blink-and-you-miss-them nuggets about Michael Burnham's life, then eventually taken it the direction they are going.
Yep. Then suddenly everyone wanted to go to Organia. The Organians OTOH hand would rather they didn't.No particular importance except that their planet is "located on the natural invasion routes" between the Klingon Empire and the Federation!
-MMoM
Wait, you missed "Errand Of Mercy" (TOS)?I must have missed that episode, thankfully.
-MMoM
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What they turned out to be in TOS isnt relevant to DISCO. Since neither side decided to occupy Organia in Burnham's War, the Organians really didn't care.
The purpose is, as Lord Garth said, is a name drop. Don't read anything more into it than that. As a planet
near the border it makes sense as a name drop. I guess they could have name dropped Sherman's Planet or some other border world instead. But it would still be the same thing, an Easter Egg. Some times a cigar is just a cigar.
^I agree it was a natural reference to make given the context, but I also think there was an element of lampshading to it. It was a sly way of the writers saying: "Yes, we realize the scenario we've set up with the Pahvans here may seem a tad familiar..."
-MMoM
-MMoM
*If* Discovery had just done its own thing, without all that insistence about syncing up with canon, I think I would have fewer questions....
Name drops are rarely inspired by anything more than fan service and are usually cheap.And sometimes a cheap, uninspired cigar is just a cheap, uninspired cigar.
I would have been happier if Discovery was first its own thing.
I doubt that. "But what about?" is endemic to fandom.
Says who? Nobody says there had been no previous war with the Klingons in "Errand Of Mercy" (TOS). At its outset, "negotiations with the Klingon Empire are on the verge of breaking down" and, when they then do, the comment is: "War. We didn't want it, but we've got it." Nothing about that directly implies a lack of prior conflicts a decade earlier. If anything, the opposite, I should think.
As was pointed out by our dearly departed @GSchnitzer, the first draft of the script for "Day Of The Dove" (TOS), dated 9 August 1968, did contain this line:
MCCOY: [sour] Fifty years -- eyeball to eyeball with the Klingon Empire. They've spied -- raided our outposts -- pirated merchant lanes. A thousand provocations, and the Federation has always managed to avoid war. Now, this crazy business could pull the trigger!
...but it was subsequently cut before ever being filmed!
In "The Infinite Vulcan" (TAS), Kirk says "there has been peace in the Federation for over 100 years" but this claim is immediately slapped down by Keniclius, who retorts: "That is a lie! What about the Eugenics Wars? The galactic wars? What of the depredations of the Romulans, the Klingons, and the Kzinti?"
In TWOK, Carol Marcus says "Starfleet has kept the peace for a hunderd years" but this is clearly in context of the conflict David raises between "scientists" and "the military" and nothing else.
In "First Contact" (TNG), Picard says: "Centuries ago, disastrous contact with the Klingon Empire led to decades of war..."
In TUC, Spock says there has been "almost seventy years of unremitting hostility" between the Klingons and the Federation.
So the Klingon War was ultimately precluded by nothing in onscreen canon.
-MMoM
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I really don't think that was the intent of the line. We're kinda going fast and loose with the interpretations. As far as "Day of the Dove" goes, even if that line had made it in, nothing would've precluded Discovery from ignoring it. The cry from pro-Discovery folks would've been "it was just a line from an episode fifty years ago!!!" Much like you're trying to twist the line from TWoK to make Discovery fit.
If you watch the scene in context, it isn't twisting anything. David is concerned that Starfleet will take Genesis from them and turn it into a weapon, bellowing: "Scientists have always been pawns of the military!" His mother replies that she "cannot and will not subscribe" to that interpretation. But in any case, she would only have been repeating a claim that had been made and refuted previously. And besides, "keeping the peace" would be exactly what Starfleet considered itself to be doing in fighting the Klingon War! The aggression was the Klingons', and the Feds merely defended themselves against it, in order to preserve their "peaceful" way of life.
-MMoM
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