Should there be a "Temporal Cold War"-angle to SNW?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Strange New Worlds' started by Rahul, Jun 17, 2022.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Invalidated? The stories still happened. That's all that matters.
     
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  2. Ray Hardgrit

    Ray Hardgrit Commodore Commodore

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    If stories are all you care about you're missing out on a lot.
     
  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Like what? Yes, I want stories, and characters carry value in of themselves. That is the purpose of story after all, to communicate a feeling to the audience, to share a moment together, and find common connection. How am I missing out?
     
  4. Cap.GRPrime1701

    Cap.GRPrime1701 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Years of episodes wouldn’t be invalidated if they used temporal shenanigans to explain away the lore/ visual retcons of DSC/ SNW or even ENT lol.

    The older shows/ films still happen in the current iteration of the prime timeline or a past branch of it.
    Just slight or significant differences in details or design.

    Like, SNW is definitely not gonna lead into the TOS, TMP movies, or etc 1:1, but the basic events will still happen.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  5. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Stories are why Trek survived the 70s, and honestly why anyone other than the hard core trekkies would watch TOS now.

    What, you thought it was Shatner and the miniskirts? :lol:
     
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  6. bookworm8571

    bookworm8571 Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes. I don’t see any real way there wouldn’t be some changes in the timeline based on all the time travel on the various Star Trek shows. It was even acknowledged on Enterprise that the Xindi War and attack on Earth had not occurred in the original timeline. Acknowledging it would explain various discrepancies like Michael Burnham being Spock’s foster sister and his much closer relationship with T’Pring and Chapel and also give them an option for writing new endings for some of these characters. I’d personally like a different ending for Captain Pike.
     
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  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't.
    That's not what was said on Enterprise. According to Daniels and Xindi attack on Earth did not happen in his history. All that could mean is that he's from a different timeline than the one all the other Trek shows took place in.
     
  8. bookworm8571

    bookworm8571 Commander Red Shirt

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    Kind of proves the point that there are multiple timelines. I just don’t think the original series had a Xindi war or a Michael Burnham as Spock’s foster sister. Some of the discrepancies from year to year are new writers forgetting previous details — i.e. Trip had a brother and a nephew in one season, never mentioned again, and later “one sister” killed by the Xindi. The books explained it though I like other versions than both the show and the books.
     
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  9. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, there was a Xindi War in TOS and Michael Burnham was Spock's sister in TOS. The is the franchise's Official Party Line, and therefore so say we all.
     
  10. bookworm8571

    bookworm8571 Commander Red Shirt

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    Not I.
     
  11. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, miniskirts didn't hurt. ;)
     
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  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    All shows have that. That's why I'm not fussed by details like that getting added or taken away.
     
  13. Ray Hardgrit

    Ray Hardgrit Commodore Commodore

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    Personally I get a lot out of the setting as well, both the world that's formed out the details and the aesthetics of the sets, props and costumes etc. I don't just put a classic Star Trek episode on and enjoy the story, I'm also enjoying taking a trip to that world, and seeing a slice of history that's been built upon in later chapters.

    If time travel changes the visuals and the details, then 100% of what we see on screen in old episodes is now wrong and my DVDs are chronicles of an erased timeline. (Instead of just some of it being wrong because of the remastering).
     
  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Agree to disagree because that's a rather extreme view that I can't even fathom.
     
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  15. Ray Hardgrit

    Ray Hardgrit Commodore Commodore

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    'When time travel changes something the old thing never happened and you can throw out those useless old DVDs full of lies' is just basic temporal mechanics! :p
     
  16. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commodore Commodore

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    In any case, Daniels still waited months into the Xindi mission to show up. Which is odd if the event wasn’t supposed to happen, and the future of Federation was put in danger. Future Guy was the more responsive. But perhaps Daniels was okay with that; it’s been acknowledged that the Suliban (at least Silik) owe Daniels favour. That bit has never been explored before, and the door is open for SNW to do just that.

    Considering that Klingons were tracking down time crystals, and Section 31 created Project Daedalus to counter the Klingon Empire's interest in time travel (no doubt spurred from the return of Klaang decades earlier), the door is open for that event being a part of the Temporal Cold War.

    That’s not a discrepancy. They weren’t the focus of the show. No need to bring them up again unless the plot required it.
     
  17. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Convenience. Daniels only showed up to alert Archer to the Xindi presence on 21st century Earth, so he had to wait for a point after that mission started. As it was, Daniels said just doing that much was a bureaucratic clusterfuck in the 31st century.
     
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My collection of VHS begs to differ.

    Strongly.
     
  19. Rahul

    Rahul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Coming back to the original premise of this thread - the SNW season 1 finale actually did it!

    Granted - it wasn't Future guy. It was future-Pike and the monks of Boreth playing the whole "protecting vs. changing the timeline"-thing. And let's not even get into DIS' time crystals.

    But - It managed to get the main point across: The future isn't fixed yet!
    It can still be changed. Future-Pike can live, and present Pike can "die" at any moment. The stakes are real, he's not "safe" by having seen the future through time travel. Anything can happen. It's just that this future timeline is what's supposed to happen, and needs to be protected.

    Which is a bit of a retcon from how it was presented on DIS (where it was pretty much "inescapable")
    But that's a change I can absolutely live with, and which is much better for the series as a whole, as it means Pike has to be careful and can die at any time as much as anyone else on the show (with the additional stake that that would royally screw up the "good" future timeline).

    So, well done SNW! You got the point across, and still managed to surprise on how it's time travel story was done.
    Also no Daniels, Future guy or Sulibans, for anyone who was fearing that :guffaw:
     
  20. Ray Hardgrit

    Ray Hardgrit Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, I think they resolved that in a way that's made pretty much everyone happy. I'm definitely glad that it's proven that the monks were wrong and the magic time crystals don't determine your fate, much the opposite in fact. It's not a retcon really, just additional information that changes our understanding. Though I suppose Discovery already hinted at it when the other time crystal visions ultimately didn't come true.
     
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