Should there be a "Temporal Cold War"-angle to SNW?

[Rahul]

Maybe I should have chosen a better title for this thread.
Because once I mentioned "TWC" - everyone suddenly assumes the show is going to turn into ENT, and Berman&Braga come personally back to write episodes.

That's a bit like asking "Should there be Ferengi on DS9?" - and everyone's going "NOOOO the Ferengi were the WORST part of TNG I'm gonna slit my WRISTS before there's ever going to be a Ferengi on DS9!"

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To come back to the original point:

Consider Nero from ST2009:
The only reason why ST09 even has time travel (and destroyed Vulcan) is to at least theoretically make it possible one of the main characters (or Earth) could be killed.

Same for the sphere builders in ENT: The meat of the story was the Xindi-conflict. But the time traveling sphere builders at least ensured that theoretically everyone is on danger, despite it being a prequel.
Hell Earth even IS destroyed in one episode, and only saved through time travel hijinks!

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So for Cpt. Pike knowing his fate I basically only see 2 options:

1. They lean heavily into that, and Pike basically goes apeshit, endangering everyone recklessly because he knows he can't die
2. Have a large scale time travel story - doesn't have to be Nero, TWC, Q, sphere builders or the Borg, bit could be - that makes things clear: The future isn't 100% written yet

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

That would be very out of character for Pike. I'd rather they just carried on telling Star Trek stories until there's eventually an opportunity for him to try to do something differently (or not).

 

[Gov Kodos]

No. Screw time travel navel gazing.

 

[fireproof78]

No. Screw time travel navel gazing.

I was going to give a longer argument but that's pretty much a summation of my feelings. Time travel nonsense is tiresome. I'm quite over it.

 

[Yistaan]

President Archer: You've gone to more extreme lengths than anyone would've thought possible to try to avert your delta radiation accident Captain Pike, or should I call you Future Guy?

Christopher Pike:

 

[ichab]

Maybe I should have chosen a better title for this thread.
Because once I mentioned "TWC" - everyone suddenly assumes the show is going to turn into ENT, and Berman&Braga come personally back to write episodes.

That's a bit like asking "Should there be Ferengi on DS9?" - and everyone's going "NOOOO the Ferengi were the WORST part of TNG I'm gonna slit my WRISTS before there's ever going to be a Ferengi on DS9!"

No one misinterpreted the thread title. It was pretty self explanatory.

-----

To come back to the original point:

------

So for Cpt. Pike knowing his fate I basically only see 2 options:

1. They lean heavily into that, and Pike basically goes apeshit, endangering everyone recklessly because he knows he can't die
2. Have a large scale time travel story - doesn't have to be Nero, TWC, Q, sphere builders or the Borg, bit could be - that makes things clear: The future isn't 100% written yet

Or ...

3.) He comes to terms with it and accepts his fate. Problem solved.

 

[The Wormhole]

Maybe I should have chosen a better title for this thread.
Because once I mentioned "TWC" - everyone suddenly assumes the show is going to turn into ENT, and Berman&Braga come personally back to write episodes.

That's a bit like asking "Should there be Ferengi on DS9?" - and everyone's going "NOOOO the Ferengi were the WORST part of TNG I'm gonna slit my WRISTS before there's ever going to be a Ferengi on DS9!"

-----

To come back to the original point:

Consider Nero from ST2009:
The only reason why ST09 even has time travel (and destroyed Vulcan) is to at least theoretically make it possible one of the main characters (or Earth) could be killed.

Same for the sphere builders in ENT: The meat of the story was the Xindi-conflict. But the time traveling sphere builders at least ensured that theoretically everyone is on danger, despite it being a prequel.
Hell Earth even IS destroyed in one episode, and only saved through time travel hijinks!

------

So for Cpt. Pike knowing his fate I basically only see 2 options:

1. They lean heavily into that, and Pike basically goes apeshit, endangering everyone recklessly because he knows he can't die
2. Have a large scale time travel story - doesn't have to be Nero, TWC, Q, sphere builders or the Borg, bit could be - that makes things clear: The future isn't 100% written yet

If it's uncertain fates you're looking for, SNW has four characters in the main cast who we don't know what happens to by the time TOS rolls around. There's no need to bring time travel in to create a sense of mystery or unknown fate.

Hell, if they'd really want to make us question the fates of characters like Pike or Spock they'd have gone ahead and actually established this show as an alternate reality. Since they didn't do that, I don't see them suddenly injecting a time travel story arc into this just to "keep us guessing."

 

[Jack Wolfe]

No. Screw time travel navel gazing.

Still a hard no from me as well. Pointless time travel is and always will be pointless.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I don't think the Temporal Cold War was done very successfully on ENT.

Correct. It got very messy because they threw the idea of Future Guy into the pilot episode for some extra intrigue, but admit they had no longterm plan as to who it would be.

Do some time-travel stuff! Don't actually make it an alternate timeline.

Time travel creates alternate timelines. And it has been way overused.

 

[Rahul]

If it's uncertain fates you're looking for, SNW has four characters in the main cast who we don't know what happens to by the time TOS rolls around. There's no need to bring time travel in to create a sense of mystery or unknown fate.

Hell, if they'd really want to make us question the fates of characters like Pike or Spock they'd have gone ahead and actually established this show as an alternate reality. Since they didn't do that, I don't see them suddenly injecting a time travel story arc into this just to "keep us guessing."

Well, WE obviously know how the TOS characters gonna' end up.

The issue comes from one of the characters inside the story knowing what's up. That he is kinda' "safe" from dying no matter what stupid stunt he pulls. That's a bit of an extraordinary dynamic that has been ignored by SNW so far. They need to deal with the somehow.

A very good example is in "Mostly harmless" (the 5th Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy book), where Arthur Dent actually has the exact same conditions - he knows where he's going to die, and abuses this to no end.

I want SNW to do something different, but also not just ignore the ramifications under the pretense of "uh, he accepts his fate. But also believes he's totally in danger every week!"

 

[Gov Kodos]

That's nonsense navel gazing. He isn't safe from dying before the crystal date. He knows damn well he is just as vulnerable to harm and death as he was before he got that vision. The isn't 'The Brand New Testament' where no one can die before God's planned time regardless what you do. Pike had plenty of navel gazing over it at the outset of the series. Wallowing in it would be an exercise in half-baked philosophical tedium normally reserved for stoned freshmen staring at album covers too long.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, WE obviously know how the TOS characters gonna' end up.

The issue comes from one of the characters inside the story knowing what's up. That he is kinda' "safe" from dying no matter what stupid stunt he pulls. That's a bit of an extraordinary dynamic that has been ignored by SNW so far. They need to deal with the somehow.

A very good example is in "Mostly harmless" (the 5th Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy book), where Arthur Dent actually has the exact same conditions - he knows where he's going to die, and abuses this to no end.

I want SNW to do something different, but also not just ignore the ramifications under the pretense of "uh, he accepts his fate. But also believes he's totally in danger every week!"

Doing time travel is the exact opposite of "different. " Literally, 3 of the 5 current shows involve time travel bullshit in some way.

 

[Rahul]

Doing time travel is the exact opposite of "different. " Literally, 3 of the 5 current shows involve time travel bullshit in some way.

Well, 5 out of 5 shows include "beaming", "phasers" and "space battles".
And they're still called "Star Trek", not "Star battles " or "Beam Trek".
That's just story tools

 

[fireproof78]

Well, 5 out of 5 shows include "beaming", "phasers" and "space battles".
And they're still called "Star Trek", not "Star battles " or "Beam Trek".
That's just story tools

They don't all feature time travel. And are better for it. Time travel is not a tool; it's a spice to be used sparingly.

 

[Rahul]

They don't all feature time travel. And are better for it. Time travel is not a tool; it's a spice to be used sparingly.

As are space battles

 

[fireproof78]

As are space battles

No. Space battles can serve a meaningful purpose. Time travel is self-indulgent reset button disguised as something meaningful.

 

[Rahul]

He isn't safe from dying before the crystal date. He knows damn well he is just as vulnerable to harm and death as he was before he got that vision. The isn't 'The Brand New Testament' where no one can die before God's planned time regardless what you do.

That would imply his fate isn't as settled as he thinks it is, and he can easily escape it by doing some last-minute improvisation like cancelling the fateful training session last minute. I mean, he knows the kids names, he could just easily avoid any session scheduled with them.

No. Space battles can serve a meaningful purpose. Time travel is self-indulgent reset button disguised as something meaningful.

Lol.

 

[fireproof78]

Lol

Glad you agree.

 

[Rahul]

Glad you agree.

Hey, it wasn't my idea to START the show with a friggin' time paradoxon - but they did!
That's now backed into the shows' DNA. Way more than any of their space battles.

And no, there are lame space battles, and interesting ones. As there are lame time travels and interesting ones.
These are just tools.

 

[Noname Given]

Hey, it wasn't my idea to START the show with a friggin' time paradoxon - but they did!
That's now backed into the shows' DNA. Way more than any of their space battles.
The majority of the openings to the most Star Trek series begin with:

"Space, the final frontier..."

NOT

"Time, the final frontier..."

And no, there are lame space battles, and interesting ones. As there are lame time travels and interesting ones.
These are just tools.