Should there be a "Temporal Cold War"-angle to SNW?

[Rahul]

Space, the final frontier..."

NOT

"Time, the final frontier..."

Are you sure it's not "Planet of the week, the final frontier..."?

 

[Gov Kodos]

That would imply his fate isn't as settled as he thinks it is, and he can easily escape it by doing some last-minute improvisation like cancelling the fateful training session last minute. I mean, he knows the kids names, he could just easily avoid any session scheduled with them.

No, no tedious navel gazing. It has been dealt with all it needs.

 

[fireproof78]

Hey, it wasn't my idea to START the show with a friggin' time paradoxon - but they did!
That's now backed into the shows' DNA. Way more than any of their space battles.

And no, there are lame space battles, and interesting ones. As there are lame time travels and interesting ones.
These are just tools.

Time travel is an over used tool. The argument was "SNW needs to do something different" and then state it doing the same thing as 3 out of 5 shows. That's not different, that's not interesting, and it's beaten to death in terms of interest. In short, whether it is a part of Star Trek or not it should be discarded, much like Pike's overt sexism in the Cage. That's baked in to, right?

 

[Kor]

I would rather not hear about the Temporal Cold War again. Unless it's to stop the thing from ever having happened (will happen?) in the first place and erase it from all our collective memories.

Kor

 

[Ovation]

I would rather not hear about the Temporal Cold War again. Unless it's to stop the thing from ever having happened (will happen?) in the first place and erase it from all our collective memories.

Kor

It got a brief nod in DSC. That’s sufficient.

 

[dupersuper]

And in the 21 years since Enterprise premiered, what all has been done with the TCW throughout the franchise? Essentially nothing. Besides the handful of Enterprise episodes on the subject, there's been one novel featuring Future Guy and Daniels as minor players and the stuff mentioned on Disco about time travel being banned in the aftermath of the TCW.

Consider that for a moment. The novels will literally follow up on anything from a Star Trek episode, but the TCW is something they've only grazed on once in two decades. You know a story idea is bad if even the novels make a point of trying to avoid it. Why would SNW want to do anything with a storyline that even the novels have tried to avoid?

There's always Star Trek Online...and Clear Skies...

No. Space battles can serve a meaningful purpose. Time travel is self-indulgent reset button disguised as something meaningful.

Or a fun and/or good one and done story (Trials and Tribble-ations, All Our Yesterdays, Little Green Men, Accession,Children of Time, Eye of the Needle, In a Mirror Darkly, A Matter of Time, Timescape, Past Tense, Shattered, Relativity, Time Squared, Twilight, Year of Hell, We'll Always Have Paris, The Sound of Her Voice...). Or a classic (City on the Edge of Forever, Yesteryear, Yesterday's Enterprise, All Good Things, The Visitor...), or the best TNG movie by a country mile...or one of the best TOS movies...or the basis for the entire Kelvin timeline...and apparently Prodigy...

 

[fireproof78]

There's always Star Trek Online...and Clear Skies...



Or a fun and/or good one and done story (Trials and Tribble-ations, All Our Yesterdays, Little Green Men, Accession,Children of Time, Eye of the Needle, In a Mirror Darkly, A Matter of Time, Timescape, Past Tense, Shattered, Relativity, Time Squared, Twilight, Year of Hell, We'll Always Have Paris, The Sound of Her Voice...). Or a classic (City on the Edge of Forever, Yesteryear, Yesterday's Enterprise, All Good Things, The Visitor...), or the best TNG movie by a country mile...or one of the best TOS movies...or the basis for the entire Kelvin timeline...and apparently Prodigy...

So...it's been done to death. No, thank you. I don't understand why this is hard to understand. I seem to recall that just because past Trek did something doesn't justify new Trek doing it. I also seem to recall the idea with Strange New Worlds is to do something strange and new exploration. And, finally, the argument being put forth was that SNW should do something different from other Trek. Except. Three out of five current Treks involve time travel in some way.

NO. THANK. YOU.

 

[ichab]

So...it's been done to death. No, thank you. I don't understand why this is hard to understand. I seem to recall that just because past Trek did something doesn't justify new Trek doing it. I also seem to recall the idea with Strange New Worlds is to do something strange and new exploration. And, finally, the argument being put forth was that SNW should do something different from other Trek. Except. Three out of five current Treks involve time travel in some way.

NO. THANK. YOU.

Agreed. I like the show the way it is: No TCW,no time travel, no overused species who don't belong in the time period, no decon scenes or sexualizing of characters just to appeal to 13 year olds...eg: another Enterprise. SNW is how a Star Trek prequal series should be done. Leave the Berman/Braga garbage in the past where it belongs.

 

[dupersuper]

I don't understand why this is hard to understand.

To paraphrase Homer Simpson: just because I don't agree doesn't mean I don't understand.

 

[fireproof78]

To paraphrase Homer Simpson: just because I don't agree doesn't mean I don't understand.

Glad you understand.

 

[bdub76]

Not a fan of time travel. It opens up so many cans of worms. One offs are fine. But that's it.

I'm not a fan of it in the STO either.

 

[Mudd]

No.

The hell with that nonsense. This is the same world as Kirk's, no problem.

The universal rejection of this idea is heartening.

 

[ichab]

Well, WE obviously know how the TOS characters gonna' end up.
The issue comes from one of the characters inside the story knowing what's up. That he is kinda' "safe" from dying no matter what stupid stunt he pulls. That's a bit of an extraordinary dynamic that has been ignored by SNW so far. They need to deal with the somehow.

Were you asleep during the early episodes when Pike was dealing with this very quandary? The writers haven't ignored it, they've simply pushed it to the back burner as of late because we have all these other characters that need development. Talking about that one issue every episode would be overkill.

A very good example is in "Mostly harmless" (the 5th Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy book), where Arthur Dent actually has the exact same conditions - he knows where he's going to die, and abuses this to no end.

I want SNW to do something different, but also not just ignore the ramifications under the pretense of "uh, he accepts his fate. But also believes he's totally in danger every week!"

Adding TCW to the mix wouldn't be "doing something different." It would just be rehashing a bad idea that should be left dead and buried. The show hasn't even finished it's first season and you're already asking for a resolution. This could be a problem that Pike masters by the end of the season or it could be something he grapples with for the entire time of the show. We don't know yet.

 

[Jack Wolfe]

No.

The hell with that nonsense. This is the same world as Kirk's, no problem.

The universal rejection of this idea is heartening.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Nobody can. Doctor Who spoke in tantalising detail about their time war, then when we see it, it's just a pewpew battle. It would cost blockbuster money and need a LOT of thought to make anything meaningful. A temporal war would be an epic clusterfuck, agents constantly respawning from alternate timelines and attacking, each attack causing new timelines where counterattacks originate... how do you tell a story in such chaos, much less one with any meaning? It would be the Rick and Morty Asimov Cascade only 1000x more insane.

Hence, us getting bizarro side stories in pocket universes where alien Nazis invade the White House, or Archer spends a day in a post-apocalyptic version of Earth because his handler accidentally erased the future.

No, it can be done, as a miniseries/anthology.

Its just a matter of trusting that whoever writes and produces the story will do it well.

E² and Stormfront 1 & 2, the whole ship time traveled.

E2: A version of the ship traveled back in time, that was then erased from time, despite he crew remembering them

Storm Front I & II: It was never mentioned in the debrief in "Home", from what we can tell. So officially, Kirk's ship is still the first.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

E2: A version of the ship traveled back in time, that was then erased from time, despite he crew remembering them

Storm Front I & II: It was never mentioned in the debrief in "Home", from what we can tell. So officially, Kirk's ship is still the first.

Oh, my bad. I thought we were talking about things that actually happened on the shows, not personal fandom nonsense rationales for why they don't count.

 

[Lyon_Wonder]

NO TCW or any other time travel in SNW.

Besides, DISCO’s in the right place to answer any questions about the TCW.

The only thing time travel-related I want to see during SNW is if Mirror Georgiou shows up since my guess is the Guardian of Forever sent her back to 2260 while Pike’s still captain of the Enterprise and the S31 series will probably take place alongside future seasons of SNW if it becomes a series.

 

[gweeps]

Nah. Would be great if a Section 31 show dealt with the Temporal Cold War though.

 

[Cap.GRPrime1701]

I think using the Temporal War as an in-universe explanation for all the lore/ visual retcons to the TOS era and other time periods throughout the current Prime Timeline would be brilliant.

It doesn’t need to involve the SNW show leaning into time travel stories. They could heavily imply it elsewhere on another show that this war did a big number on the Prime Timeline/ multiverse, maybe even showing records of ships/ characters that “predate” the war.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I'd prefer it if they didn't make it canon that time travel has invalidated years of episodes.