SG-U – Subversion (1x18) - (Discuss – Grade | SPOILERS)

[TiberiusMaximus]

Seems too easy to make the jerk Telford also a traitor. Still not sure why his residual memories were scene by Scott and Rush. They almost explained it, then backed away...oh, it wasn't brainwashing.

Yes, the Lucian Alliance blows, even with Rhona Mitra in charge.

Rush is gonna come back to a battered body.

Um, I'm pretty sure he was brainwashed. He was denying it, that doesn't mean it's not true, at least not necessarily. The idea of brainwashing is to make someone believe that whatever you want them to do is their idea.

And I wonder what the LA is gonna do when they gate to Destiny and find out they can't gate back. I just don't think they've thought through the plan very well.

 

[Checkmate]

The reason for them to get onboard is questionable at best. 'Course, the same is true of the Icarus plan. But at least Earth is simply interested in exploring and learning. The Alliance is just a collection of thugs who, unlike Earth, actually know they won't be able to simply gate back, and they know the ship is a giant rust bucket. Why do they want it? It has inferior weapons, inferior speed, and inferior defenses. The only thing it has is a bad ass star map.

 

[Harvey]

And if they wanted the star map, you'd think there would be an easier way to get it.

Unless there's something about the Destiny (perhaps relating to the possible ascension a few episodes back) the Lucian Alliance somehow knows about that the SGC doesn't.

 

[Hermiod]

Seems too easy to make the jerk Telford also a traitor. Still not sure why his residual memories were scene by Scott and Rush. They almost explained it, then backed away...oh, it wasn't brainwashing.

That's a side effect of using the stones. Sometimes a person will experience residual memories from their host body after they have disconnected.

I didn't care to much for Wray once again being "you keeping secrets is why the military needs to be locked up" but overall, a pretty damn good episode.

There are, though, a LOT of people in the real world like that, and not a few of them go into government and other "oversight" organizations SPECIFICALLY because that's how they feel.

As much as I hate Wray personally, that's the character of the... well, the character... to a "T."

And if it were me, I'd've put a bullet into her at the end of the mutiny.

I'm with Wray on this. The military has to play by rules made by civilians or they start acting just like Young did here. Just because the Geneva Convention wasn't written with Ancient communication stones, Goa'uld brainwashing technology and people betraying Earth to an Interstellar gang of criminals, that doesn't mean that it doesn't apply.

Not to mention the fact that Young is using this as a convenient means of getting rid of both Rush and Telford.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

And if they wanted the star map, you'd think there would be an easier way to get it.

Unless there's something about the Destiny (perhaps relating to the possible ascension a few episodes back) the Lucian Alliance somehow knows about that the SGC doesn't.

And that could be exactly it. They know Ancient technology is far more advanced than Goa'uld tech. Plus, if this particular LA faction is feeling a bit crowded, what better way to solve that problem than to go to a galaxy on the other side of the universe? Kiva seems like the type to have delusions of grandeur. She may very well want to get aboard Destiny, take it over, and use it as a staging ground for dominating remote galaxies. By that token, getting home may not be a top priority--she can make do.

It would just have been nice to hear some explanation. Also, there's no way to know one way or the other if Destiny can, for instance, dial back to an Icarus-type planet, possibly piggybacking on the planet's naquadriah deposits to power the incoming wormhole. Maybe that's what they're thinking would happen, so they think they actually could get back.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

I didn't care to much for Wray once again being "you keeping secrets is why the military needs to be locked up" but overall, a pretty damn good episode.

There are, though, a LOT of people in the real world like that, and not a few of them go into government and other "oversight" organizations SPECIFICALLY because that's how they feel.

As much as I hate Wray personally, that's the character of the... well, the character... to a "T."

And if it were me, I'd've put a bullet into her at the end of the mutiny.

I'm with Wray on this. The military has to play by rules made by civilians or they start acting just like Young did here. Just because the Geneva Convention wasn't written with Ancient communication stones, Goa'uld brainwashing technology and people betraying Earth to an Interstellar gang of criminals, that doesn't mean that it doesn't apply.

Not to mention the fact that Young is using this as a convenient means of getting rid of both Rush and Telford.

The main problem with Wray: As a private person, I think she can be quite likeable. But in her job, she always goes in full bitch mode for some reason. And most of the time we see her on screen she happens to be on duty. Hence the character is annoying.

The writers should at least try to make her position look more legitimate.

 

[Hermiod]

It would just have been nice to hear some explanation. Also, there's no way to know one way or the other if Destiny can, for instance, dial back to an Icarus-type planet, possibly piggybacking on the planet's naquadriah deposits to power the incoming wormhole. Maybe that's what they're thinking would happen, so they think they actually could get back.

Back in Atlantis' "Home", McKay, while on "Earth", hypothesised that if they had enough power to establish a very brief connection to the planet they had dialled in to Earth from the Stargate system would correct for the loss of power and use power from the receiving side.

And in "48 Hours", it's said that if an outgoing DHD was destroyed or disabled while there was a traveller in transit, normally the incoming DHD would correct for this and take over. Since the SGC did not have a DHD, relying instead on a Human-built Gate computer that ignores most of the signals sent to it, it did not correct and Teal'c ended up stuck just like we saw until they connected a real DHD to the Stargate.

I guess, in theory, if they could get full control of Destiny they could take it to a star as if they were going to recharge, and then use that continuous source of power to dial the Icarus-like planet.

The main problem with Wray: As a private person, I think she can be quite likeable. But in her job, she always goes in full bitch mode for some reason. And most of the time we see her on screen she happens to be on duty. Hence the character is annoying.

She works in HR. They're always like that.

In this case, however, I don't think she was wrong. Young was quite happy to ignore the fact that it wasn't Telford's body he was torturing.

 

[bullethead]

I guess, in theory, if they could get full control of Destiny they could take it to a star as if they were going to recharge, and then use that continuous source of power to dial the Icarus-like planet.

Actually, they would need full control and the equipment to fully repair the power conduits and a bunch of other stuff, considering that this is the same scheme that Rush predicted would destroy Destiny in Earth and Eli found out would actually do more damage than Rush predicted in a following episode.

 

[Hermiod]

^Good point, I forgot about that.

However, they might be able to manage it if they only use a minimal amount of power to establish the connection for just long enough for the DHD on the other side to start drawing power from the Naquahdria on the Icarus-like planet.

Of course, the big problem with that plan is that they'd have to go back through a Stargate on a Lucian Alliance controlled planet.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Of course, the big problem with that plan is that they'd have to go back through a Stargate on a Lucian Alliance controlled planet.

That's why they'd use the stones to coordinate with Earth and make sure some friendlies are present to give them an exit route. There are, what, 80-plus people on Destiny? Seems like a large enough number that they could commit the Hammond and a few other ships to briefly liberate the new Icarus planet. They'd just have to be careful not to hit it too hard, lest they blow it to Kingdom Come, too.

 

[Checkmate]

It would just have been nice to hear some explanation. Also, there's no way to know one way or the other if Destiny can, for instance, dial back to an Icarus-type planet, possibly piggybacking on the planet's naquadriah deposits to power the incoming wormhole. Maybe that's what they're thinking would happen, so they think they actually could get back.

It's not about power. The Destiny had no problem getting access to that from a star. It's not about the stargate, either. It can handle the power. The problem is that the Destiny itself can't handle the transfer of power.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

It would just have been nice to hear some explanation. Also, there's no way to know one way or the other if Destiny can, for instance, dial back to an Icarus-type planet, possibly piggybacking on the planet's naquadriah deposits to power the incoming wormhole. Maybe that's what they're thinking would happen, so they think they actually could get back.

It's not about power. The Destiny had no problem getting access to that from a star. It's not about the stargate, either. It can handle the power. The problem is that the Destiny itself can't handle the transfer of power.

Which is why it would make more sense to have the receiving end provide much of the power, so Destiny doesn't get overloaded.

Not that the LA goons know that, of course.

 

[Checkmate]

The point is it can't even start the connection without blowing up. Just starting to dial an address that far away puts the ship in danger.

 

[Silvercrest]

And I wonder what the LA is gonna do when they gate to Destiny and find out they can't gate back. I just don't think they've thought through the plan very well.

They must know that already. Maybe they have a ZPM to hook up to Destiny's gate.

 

[Tom]

And I wonder what the LA is gonna do when they gate to Destiny and find out they can't gate back. I just don't think they've thought through the plan very well.

They must know that already. Maybe they have a ZPM to hook up to Destiny's gate.

But would a ZPM be enough? It is a new tchnology then destiny but i somehow think they would more power, maybe 3 or more zpm's. Destiny's bigger problem in failing power conduits.

 

[Silvercrest]

Well, I had in mind that they'd rig the ZPM directly to the gate, instead of using Destiny's hardware. Maybe even perform a manual dial. I'm just guessing here.

On the other hand, one ZPM might very well not be enough-- but the Lucian Alliance didn't anticipate that. Which would explain why our guys can't just gate home in the end.

 

[Checkmate]

If it only took a ZPM, they wouldn't need to find entire planets to use as a fuel cell.

 

[Silvercrest]

Well, in theory it's a lot harder to get to Destiny than it is to get back, because when dialing to it, you don't have access to the ship's power reserves.

Granted, those power reserves haven't done Our Gang a lot of good. But if the Lucian Alliance wants to gate there, they could be assuming that a ZPM coupled to Destiny's power would be enough to surmount the problem of getting back. (And of course, they could turn out to be wrong!)

One thing: If we wind up with a bunch of Lucian Alliance thugs living on board when this is all over, it will resolve the issue of military vs. civilians. All the Earth people will have a common antagonist, if not an outright enemy.

Is it plausible that the Lucian Alliance could carve out their own "territory" on board? Sort of a Cold War situation. And neither group goes near the other's turf unless absolutely necessary. That way you could have the LA featured in some episodes but not others.

 

[MPH]

Well, in theory it's a lot harder to get to Destiny than it is to get back, because when dialing to it, you don't have access to the ship's power reserves.

Granted, those power reserves haven't done Our Gang a lot of good. But if the Lucian Alliance wants to gate there, they could be assuming that a ZPM coupled to Destiny's power would be enough to surmount the problem of getting back. (And of course, they could turn out to be wrong!)

One thing: If we wind up with a bunch of Lucian Alliance thugs living on board when this is all over, it will resolve the issue of military vs. civilians. All the Earth people will have a common antagonist, if not an outright enemy.

Is it plausible that the Lucian Alliance could carve out their own "territory" on board? Sort of a Cold War situation. And neither group goes near the other's turf unless absolutely necessary. That way you could have the LA featured in some episodes but not others.

I have a feeling thats where there going with this in S2, should be interesting.

 

[Checkmate]

First, we already saw that happen with the attempted mutiny. Second, the whole scenario is Voyager 2.0. Because you know after a few episodes they're going to "have" to come to an agreement, likely due to a situation rather than, you know, them actually thinking shit through.

Second, the ship's power reserves were never the issue. Destiny doesn't supply enough juice normally to go beyond the limited range she provides, and apparently no one onboard thought it was worth the risk to pump more juice through to try when Eli and Co. were stranded. Even if they did, the whole failing power conduits comes up again. So no... there's no extra power to rely on. And the LA would know that considering how much information they've been fed via Telford and God knows who else. Who would be well aware of all the situations and particularly those attempts.