Seven / B'Elena's relationship

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If I had to resume the relationship between these 2 people, I'd say that they could never be best friends and however, they had so much in common:

    - both were 2 outcasts who we knew would live a difficult reception once back on Earth,
    - both women shared the same high levels of knowledge in engineering matters and the same low levels of tolerance,
    - a heritage that they were in denial of, needing to belong but wishing that that need didn't exist,
    - a mentoring relationship with a commanding officer (Janeway for Seven and Chakotay/Janeway for B'Elena) who brought them into a particular situation;
    - etc...

    What do you think?
    (In advance, sorry if my 2nd attempt to create a new thread was badly led! Not very at this!:shrug:)
     
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  2. Kill Anna

    Kill Anna Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was interesting to see someone like B'Elanna telling Seven how rude she really was with the crew. B'Elanna had her own struggle with politeness. And it seems that Seven has learned her lesson.
     
  3. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    About politness, Torres quickly understood that "it was NOT with vinegar that catch flies" or "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar".
    -> In clear, sometimes, it's a necessity to bend a few (and to show a minimum of respect to others)

    cf to S1"s Parallax"
    "TORRES: All right. Get that isolinear bank up and running. And lock down those plasma relays. Please. I'm going to be counting on you, Lieutenant. I'm not up to date on the latest Starfleet protocols and I know that you're probably more familiar with the quirks of this warp engine than I am right now. I hope that I can depend on you."

    As for Seven, well, she just didn't care. She was raised in the idea that Borgs were
    greater than all the other species so, why should she worry about attitude. But fortunately, with time, she evolved and understood in adopting an attitude which was more or less friendly even if reflexes die hard.

    What I found ironic wasn't so much that B'Lenea Torres gave lessons about politeness & tolerance but rather that the Doctor taught to Seven lessons about good manners while he was the perfect example of rudeness, arrogance!
    As French people use to say: "L'homme est aveugle sur ses défauts, et clairvoyant sur ceux d'autrui" ("Man is blind to his faults, and perceptive about others").
    -> here, I'd replace "man" by "hologram"! :p
     
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  4. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Doctor's terrible bedside manner got B'Elanna P.O.'d many a time and it was always cute, though, seeing her a pause to control herself before she'd just say, "thank you," for whatever he did and storm off. So, maybe her sensitivity to rudeness derived from the EMH?
     
  5. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    I think the scene in the beginning of scientific method is really interesting in terms of their personalities

    SEVEN: I am unaccustomed to working in a hierarchy. In the Collective there was no need to ask permission.
    TORRES: If you're going to be a member of this crew, get used to it. Procedures exist for a reason. We've got to work together. Follow the same set of rules
    SEVEN: Lieutenant?
    TORRES: I was given that lecture once, by Captain Janeway when I first joined this crew. If I could adjust to Starfleet life, so can you.

    Also in one of the novels belanna is injured on an away mission. Seven injects her with nanoprobes and they end up forming a mini collective. I wish this had been an episode and they became friends through this
     
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  6. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In my fanfic, I argue that only 3 people love B'Elanna more than Seven; Tom, Janeway and Chakotay.

    As proof I used Imperfection. When Seven thought she was dying it was to Engineering and B'Elanna she ran when eluding the Doctor.


    [Engineering - upper level]

    TORRES: He's looking for you. The Doctor, I ran into him in the corridor. He's about thirty seconds away from calling a ship-wide alert.
    SEVEN: Are you going to tell him where I am?
    TORRES: No. I know what it's like to be stuck in Sickbay. I've escaped the Doctor myself once or twice.
    SEVEN: Thank you.
    TORRES: Any time.
    SEVEN: Lieutenant. When you die, do you believe your spirit will go to Sto-Vo-Kor?
    TORRES: You shouldn't be thinking about dying.
    SEVEN: According to the Doctor's simulations, any attempt to adapt the salvaged node will fail. Sto-Vo-Kor, Lieutenant. Do you believe you'll go there?
    TORRES: I guess it all depends on how honorable my death is.
    SEVEN: But you do believe there's something after death?
    TORRES: I hope so. What about you?
    SEVEN: The Borg have no concept of an afterlife. However, when a drone is deactivated, its memories continue to reside in the Collective's consciousness. As long as the hive exists, so will a part of that drone.
    TORRES: You don't seem to take much comfort in that.
    SEVEN: My link to the Collective has been severed for nearly four years. If I die, everything that I have accomplished in that time, everything I achieved as an individual, will be lost. My memories, my experiences. It will be as if they, as if I never existed.
    TORRES: I think you're a little more memorable than you're giving yourself credit for. You don't need the Collective to validate your existence. You've made an impact on every member of this crew. That's your legacy.
    (The EMH enters main Engineering and looks up.)
    EMH: There you are. I should have known she'd be the one to harbor a fugitive.
    TORRES: We difficult patients need to stick together.
    EMH: I want you to return to Sickbay immediately.
    SEVEN: Have you devised a new treatment?
    EMH: Not yet.
    SEVEN: Then it's best that I don't distract you from finding one.
    EMH: Seven, if you continue to exert yourself, your condition will only deteriorate more rapidly. Is that what you want?
    SEVEN: What I want is to be useful.
    TORRES: I really could use her help. I promise not to let her overdo it.
    EMH: You can stay, provided you wear this cortical monitor.
    (He throws it up to Seven, who catches it. The EMH leaves.)
    SEVEN: (to B'Elanna) Thank you.
    (Seven puts on the monitor and returns to her work.)

    For some reason the vid doubles back and repeats itself.

     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  7. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Seven & B'Elena weren't friends - and I don't think they could ever be, besides - but they surely learnt with time, to respect and even to appreciate each other even if it was blatant.
    In a physical confrontation, I'm not sure that the aggressive Torres, even with the help of her bat'leth, could top Seven, who just in using her arm could kill her ou at least, lift her.

    As for Chakotay & Janeway, I suppose they saw Torres with the eyes of mentors they were/played ...though Torres, her, had to see them as subtitue parents . And Tom Paris, he saw her first as a serious girlfriend then as the woman of his life and mother of his daughter.

    *(It seems to me that Janeway considered Kes & Seven as her children. For B'Elena Torres, her affection was different but not less sincere).
     
  8. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I suspect that B'Elanna is a little more than a just protégé for Janeway.



     
  9. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    It was implied heavily in Barge of the Dead that they have a deep relationship. She says she hopes that Janeway is proud of her, and when she wakes up at the end she hugs Janeway, not Tom who is standing right there. In her vision her mother also appears in Janeway's uniform and B'Elanna calls her "captain". Janeway is a strong mother figure to B'Elanna.
     
  10. Catarina

    Catarina Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I like Barge of the Dead.
     
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  11. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    Me too ;)
     
  12. Tracy Trek

    Tracy Trek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That is from one of the String Theory books I believe.

    There is also one of the short stories in one of the Strange New Worlds volumes. The title is Redux. Seven and B'Elanna have to work together to get out of a repeating loop of time. Spoilers ahead.
    They also have to make sure the chain of events never starts again because they were the only survivors on the whole ship.
     
  13. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    Yes that was a great story!
     
  14. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    They were extremely different and their very different personalities made conflict between them almost inevitable.

    B'lanna is passionate and somewhat aggressive even, while seven has no concept(at least early on) of social graces and ques and doesn't show emotion and doesn't understand why she should. This just infuriates B'lanna further who probably wasn't so happy with having an ex Borg on the ship.

    As for B'lanna and Janeway-they do very much have a strong relationship with Janeway arguably being a substitute mother figure for B'lanna as opposed to her biological mother that she had conflict with.
     
  15. Logopolis

    Logopolis Commander Red Shirt

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    Both of them seemed to struggle with their humanity, possibly to a certain point where they were trying to retreat toward it. This was made very apparent with Torres in Faces, Extreme Risk, Lineage and Blood Fever. Their darker personas acted as their own mimetic doubles because, to them, it would project something of strength when really, we were seeing them play out their pain.
     
  16. Crimson Forcefield

    Crimson Forcefield Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Now that is a rather exciting thought.
     
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  17. marlboro

    marlboro Guest

    How self-contained is the first String Theory book? Seven and B'Elanna are two of my favorite Voyager characters, but some of the reviews of the latter parts of the trilogy are a bit mixed.

    Does part one tell a complete story, or would I have to buy all three?
     
  18. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

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    I think B'Elanna and Seven's relationship was at a better point by the end of the series. But I don't think they will ever be close friends. I think the problem is that despite their differences, they were too similar.
     
  19. Tracy Trek

    Tracy Trek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think you have to read all three
     
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  20. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    B'lanna wasn't just cold or distant to Seven in the early seasons after Seven was introduced, she was openly hostile and belligerent. She even insinuated she might become physically aggressive and Chakotay forcefully reminded her she would be responsible for it.

    Seven was perplexed at this because at the time she didn't grasp emotions or why B'lanna had such hostility to a borg drone on the ship. Later on Seven saw B'lanna as more someone with whom she could work with, but also annoying and grating because of emotional irrationality. By season 7 I think B'lanna had lost some of her hostility, she was encouraging IIRC seven to contact her surviving family.

    But I don't think they'd ever be friends, they are simply too different.