Yes. DIsturbing.
Season 2 an overall improvement?
- Thread starter ED-209
- Start date
Yes. DIsturbing.
Why?
The Orville is no more daring for 2019 than TNG was for 1987. It certainly not even close to, say what LEXX was doing in the late 1990s. Now that was daring for its time.
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I do wish MacFarlane had cast a better leading actor, but it’s his dream project so I guess he can do what he wants. Nobody told Vic Mignogna that he couldn’t lead his own Trek production.
In his focus on his own passive/agressive hollwood circa 2019 narcissism and how that filters anything that he copies from Star Trek to what makes it into an episode of The Orville. Not to mention how the Orvillies just lap it up without question. But again, I find this all very interesting as it is very illuminating on multiple levels.
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Or better writers than he is, or wasn't in charge of casting etc.
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Seems if you're going to be disturbed by narcissism in the performing arts then there's no end of examples. It's an industry literally built on narcissism and self promotion. Equally everything (and I mean everything) we watch is on some level drawn from that which has gone before, some things are just more explicit about it than others. Creativity lies not in doing something entirely original but in finding ways to develop and build on the past. Sometimes that means parody or homage, it almost always requires ego.
I'm not an Orville fan, but the idea of being "disturbed" by it had never occurred to me, possibly because there are (to my mind) so many more acutely disturbing things in the world.
Yes, and how often do we see a fan production, like the Orville, where the person that is not only a cut and paste job, but where the head producer also decides to be the captain of his own starship, and also serves as the main writer, hires many of his friends to play major roles, and even hands a main role to his relatively inexperienced actor girlfriend. I mean, this isn't typical Hollywood, this is the kind of territory that Ed Wood and Orson Welles occupied, and IMHO, a lot closer to Ed Wood. And yes, I'm a little disturbed by what he and the Orvillies appear to think he's doing and what he's actually doing. Because I see a series of disconnects there that at times seems alternatively unconscious and willful.
A little disturbing seems a reasonably accurate description of my response to his vanity project. I won't go all hyperbolic and say I'm horrified at what I see each week I watch the show, as that would be silly. I mean, its not like he's putting on a 10 hour version of Julius Caesar while playing all the parts (except for Sharon Stone as Calpurnia). I mean, who would watch that?
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Don't take the criticism as an insult. I question my own perception of things, which I hoped I made clear.
Look, MacFarlane has a history of stealing ideas. You may care or not. It, again, is what I feel matters and not a seal of quality. I am bothered by how often and consistently this guy has stolen stuff from others (or seems to have, imho). That's just me. I am biased. In other cases, I don't care. It wasn't my intention to debate plagiarism, even though it is an interesting topic.
I want to know why many of you like the Orville, whereas I didn't warm up to it. I don't mean to present my opinion as fact or as better than anyone's. If that's what anyone thought I was doing, I'm sorry.
Look, MacFarlane has a history of stealing ideas. You may care or not. It, again, is what I feel matters and not a seal of quality. I am bothered by how often and consistently this guy has stolen stuff from others (or seems to have, imho). That's just me. I am biased. In other cases, I don't care. It wasn't my intention to debate plagiarism, even though it is an interesting topic.
I want to know why many of you like the Orville, whereas I didn't warm up to it. I don't mean to present my opinion as fact or as better than anyone's. If that's what anyone thought I was doing, I'm sorry.
Okay...
Why did I warm to it? Likable character and fun stories. The universe is weird and wild. For me, it is about as close to the original Star Trek as anything I've seen since.
Thanks. Glad you like it. I just can't see it that way. Maybe it's just a matter of perspective. Maybe I can't get over myself. I will remain sceptical for now.
Fair enough. Our tastes in entertainment run a wide gamut, and I think that is a good thing or else the industry would just spit out clone after clone.
Imagine how I'd flail in impotent rage, then. 
You're right, of course.
You're right, of course.
OrvilleBBS syndrome is hard to keep at bay.
I think maybe we have a different sense of perspective on these things.
International tensions disturb me, serial killers disturb me (sometimes), terrorists disturb me, oppression, crime and economic failure disturb me, my toe nails disturb me.
Powerful hollywood types harmlessly indulging their creative mores (and their egos) when making essentially quite lightweight TV shows, not so much.
Yeah, getting rid of Dr. Beverly Crusher and bringing in a female version of Dr. Leonard McCoy in the form of Dr. Katherine Pulaski (right down to the distrust of Transporters and being "An old Country doctor"); and further trying to re-invent the McCoy/Spock adversarial relationship (quickly abandoned because the writers did realize how different Data was from aspects of Spock, and Pulaski's torts and retorts came across like a parent verbally abusing an innocent child); were a HUGE departure from 1960ies era TOS... oh, wait...Especially as, after season 1, TNG tried to get away from being stuck with 60s Trek.Even season 1, it's clear they did a shakeup. But the callbacks with original Enterprise and shuttle models littering various sets for no reason except "Callback are cool!", remaking "The Naked Time" so poorly, and so on... way too distracting for a show needing to find its own feet than leech off of it so extensively.
TNG didn't stop the overt callbacks (and IMO didn't start to really find it's own separate 'voice' until a few episodes into TNG Season 3.
Yes, in the same way that (after 20 years and changes to what can be shown on 'Network/Cable) TNG was 'more daring' (in that it could more directly show certain things) than TOS could in the 1960ies.
^^^
The Orville's ability to more openly show Moclin 'Bondage Porn' and the home invasion torture scenes they had in the final Alara episode. As for the rest - TNG did a form of a 'gender identity' story in TNG S6 Episode - "The Outcast"; and while again, they did a more graphic 'Holodeck Porn Addiction' story; between Lt. Barcly's holodeck fantasy addiction in TNG S3 - Hollow pursuits; and the Geordi sexual stalker aspects they covered in TNG S4 - "Galaxy's Child" (all because Geordi made a holodeck copy of Leah Brahams that he fell in love with in TNG S3 "Booby Trap"- And used info from that TO stalk her once the real person showed up); IDK if "The Orville" has done anything all that more 'daring' but YMMV.
Discovery is just over the top, and getting a bit wacky and unrealistic, in comparison to canon in the previous series.
10 years before Kirk we have:
We have a guy (Cubler) just return from the dead. His boyfriend, has implants to plug into a ship the has a 'Spore' powered drive, that can go anywhere in space, reality, and time.
The continuing stuff with Tyler/Voq, and now he is a Section 31 agent on Discovery.
Captain Lorca was from the mirror universe where he tried to take over control of the empire and was killed.
Georgeio, back from the dead as far as most people know, but is really the Emperor of the mirror universe and now is a Section 31 agent.
Burnham, someone who is close to Spock as sister, but yet we never knew about her (sorta like Sybok I suppose). Who then gets court marshaled, and put in prison and and now full exonerated and at her previous rank.
Klingons, with different looks and ships in season 1 , now retro-coned to be more like the previous trek series in season 2 in regards to looks and ships.
So you can see, if you backup and look at this far away, the show does seem pretty wacky. Almost more of a fantasy series and Sci-fi. Get someone who has never watched this show and try to explain to them all the stuff that has happened as they watch the latest episode, it may take a while.
I do enjoy watching Discovery but i wish they would tone down some of these wacky storyline.
10 years before Kirk we have:
We have a guy (Cubler) just return from the dead. His boyfriend, has implants to plug into a ship the has a 'Spore' powered drive, that can go anywhere in space, reality, and time.
The continuing stuff with Tyler/Voq, and now he is a Section 31 agent on Discovery.
Captain Lorca was from the mirror universe where he tried to take over control of the empire and was killed.
Georgeio, back from the dead as far as most people know, but is really the Emperor of the mirror universe and now is a Section 31 agent.
Burnham, someone who is close to Spock as sister, but yet we never knew about her (sorta like Sybok I suppose). Who then gets court marshaled, and put in prison and and now full exonerated and at her previous rank.
Klingons, with different looks and ships in season 1 , now retro-coned to be more like the previous trek series in season 2 in regards to looks and ships.
So you can see, if you backup and look at this far away, the show does seem pretty wacky. Almost more of a fantasy series and Sci-fi. Get someone who has never watched this show and try to explain to them all the stuff that has happened as they watch the latest episode, it may take a while.
I do enjoy watching Discovery but i wish they would tone down some of these wacky storyline.
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