Same Sex Marriage
- Thread starter Ezri D
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I did forget about her, but I meant in the starring role.
If they had gone ahead with season 5 I would have loved to see Columbia based episodes with her in charge.
I'm not sure I'd want cross-dressers to exist in the future in the way they do now.
Women today wear male clothes without being called transvestites, so in the future I'd expect to see more men adopting some women's apparel without being called that either.
Now, I'm a bit unsure about a male doing the full thing, with exclusively women's clothing and feminine make-up, and even pretending to be a woman. It should obviously be depicted, but I'd personally show more men who do all those things without trying to appear feminine, and without the rest of the characters treating them as if they were more feminine. I'd expect that some men would decide to adopt things that are now considered for women, without trying to act as if they had taken a female role. There should be no social stigma attached to those things by then.
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This, sad-but-true.
I always thought Star Trek: Enterprise should have positively addressed gay marriage back when it was first becoming a hot cultural and political issue. Even something as simple as a dialogue reference to a human male crewmember's husband would have had the following effects: (1) help Trek reascend a curve of social conscience and relevance on which it had fallen shamefully behind (every other show on TV had addressed homosexuality by that point, but gay marriage was still a relatively untapped topic), and (2) generate some press and buzz the foundering franchise could have certainly used in its declining years. But of course, nobody had the stones for it.
(It's gratifying, BTW, to see the lack of homophobes and haters in this thread so far. Back in the days I hung around here more, it was always depressing to see how backwards-ass and bigoted so many Star Trek fans were whenever the topic of homosexuality came up. Of course, that crowd probably just hasn't found this thread yet.)
I'm not sure I'd want cross-dressers to exist in the future in the way they do now.
Women today wear male clothes without being called transvestites, so in the future I'd expect to see more men adopting some women's apparel without being called that either.
Now, I'm a bit unsure about a male doing the full thing, with exclusively women's clothing and feminine make-up, and even pretending to be a woman. It should obviously be depicted, but I'd personally show more men who do all those things without trying to appear feminine, and without the rest of the characters treating them as if they were more feminine. I'd expect that some men would decide to adopt things that are now considered for women, without trying to act as if they had taken a female role. There should be no social stigma attached to those things by then.
Metrosexuals?!?
How is that quote not homophobic? You're essentially saying that Star Trek shouldn't have lesbians for no reason other than guys might find it hot. That is just wrong.
Maybe? But I don't think this is what I had in mind.
I'm merely hoping that the personal grooming choices of the people in the future will be less restrained by social stigma, and less subject to negative labels for no good reason. And, on the other hand, I'm speculating that they will be different enough from what we have in the present that they won't fit any label we have exactly.
I'm also hoping they are depicted in a way that gets appreciated by people who are seeing the franchise and are open-minded, but then again, I'm not certain I'm open-minded enough to comment on that.
No, he didn't...so not only do you not "recall correctly," it's hard to imagine what it is that you've based this "recall" on at all.
Knight Templar
Commodore
I can only say what I remember reading.
Funny how we project our feelings and ideas on what we "remember".
Given what we know of Roddenberry, does that even remotely sound like something he would say?
90% of the readers will remember 80% of the material with 70% accuracy.
No, no you didn't...
No, no you didn't...
A
Amaris
Guest
Maybe? But I don't think this is what I had in mind.
I'm merely hoping that the personal grooming choices of the people in the future will be less restrained by social stigma, and less subject to negative labels for no good reason. And, on the other hand, I'm speculating that they will be different enough from what we have in the present that they won't fit any label we have exactly.
I'm also hoping they are depicted in a way that gets appreciated by people who are seeing the franchise and are open-minded, but then again, I'm not certain I'm open-minded enough to comment on that.
Eh. I've never seen transvestism as anything other than fine. Fashions and cultural nuances change so often that it really doesn't matter. A couple of hundred years ago, children were put in dresses, whether boy or girl. Adult males wore powdered wigs and whitened their faces. They wore bows and ribbons on their clothing, and it was all acceptable. I imagine the same for future generations.
That would seem to contradict the Roddenberry-authored TMP novelization where Kirk denied the rumors of Kirk and Spock being lovers but seemed to suggest that homosexuality was alive and well in at least the 23rd century (and there's no reason to think it wouldn't be in the next):
____________________________
The first "official response" to slash came from the creator of Star Trek himself, Gene Roddenberry. Writing the novelization of 1979's Star Trek: The Motion Picture, he seemed to wish to reassure the many fans who didn't view Kirk and Spock as a gay couple (or even consider it) while not alienating the slash readers and writers, loyal fans for sure. He coined a term spoken by Spock in the novel, ty'hy'la - friend, brother, lover - and inserted a footnote to explain it. The footnote continues with "comments" from Kirk:
I was never aware of this 'lovers' rumor, although I have been told that Spock encountered it several times. Apparently, he had always dismissed it with his characteristic lifting of his right eyebrow, which usually connoted some combination of surprise, disbelief, and/or annoyance. As for myself... I have always found my best gratification in that creature called woman. Also, I would not like to be thought of as being so foolish that I would select a love partner who came into sexual heat only once every seven years.
http://www.spocklives.com/slash.php
Knight Templar
Commodore
Roddenberry always talked a nice game about being "enlightened". But his treatment of women was disgusting at best (read his OFFICIAL biography) and it is well known that he killed David Gerrold's ST:TNG script that featured homosexual characters (and then lied about it to Gerrold).
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
ENT dropped the ball by not including an openly gay male character. It was beyond time for that to happen. A Latino captain would have been cool, too. Instead they went with a very "safe" cast of characters.
I always felt that being that the show premiered in the wake of 9/11 and its entire run existed in the post-9/11 world, it would have been an ideal time to have an Arab or Muslim character as a regular as well, to promote tolerance and acceptance, despite the real world politics at the time.
Opportunity: missed.
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