Predictable internet backlash against female character being as generally awesome as male characters: check.
Rey in The Force Awakens (Possible Spoilers)
- Thread starter Captain Nebula
- Start date
And yes that was Daniel Craig.
I think the old "Aren't you a little short for a storm trooper?" line might apply to him.
Kor
Has Disney confirmed a timeline here? seems like we should be almost 40 years ABY going by real-world timescale. She could have easily been born a decade after the Battle of Endor.
I liked the character and there is no question in my mind she is
Luke's daughter curious who her mother is I was never into the books so don't care about the EU
Well no, we don't have an exact timeline. But even if Rey was born 10 years after the battle of endor, that would still fit with a post-ROTJ super master Jedi Luke fathering a child.
There is some of that fueling some of the voices I'm sure, but personally I just think it is lazy writing. It is lazy writing when it is a man, I'm not going to give it a pass when it is a woman.
I really like Rey, but awesomeness without fault is boring.
I think it can be argued that her "awakening" to the Force is entirely Kylo Ren's doing. His using the Force to try to probe her mind was the pilot light which sparked what was already there. The more he tried, the more she resisted, the more she started to figure it out. By the end of it she was reading HIM (her comment about his being afraid). It's basically the moment that David Gerrold long-ago complained the original Star Wars didn't have: when Kenobi opens Luke's eyes to how to feel the Force.
Does she have no faults? She makes all kind of mistakes, reacts with fear to her burgeoning power, causing her capture by Kylo Ren. There's no question that she has some amazing talent, but so does Finn and so did Luke. I don't see her actions in the movie to be any less believable than a stormtrooper turned good or a farm boy who saves the galaxy.
That's exactly how I read that scene as well. As Kylo does his best to scrape out her mind and dump the contents on the floor for him to see, she feels his efforts and understands them, how to do them herself and how to avoid succumbing to his probes. Rey would not have been able to pull of the mind trick without first having been the subject of Kylo's mind probe.
Plus it's only after Ren mentioned the Force that her Saber action improves.
All this is bending over backwards to try and rationalize it. I want awesome female characters, I was hoping Leia would have some force skills by now. This felt like she had god mode on in order to make her more important, and it felt cheesy. Hardly any injury during her first major lightsaber duel where she hadn't even picked one up before....
She got a quicker start with the force than any other major character and we hardly know her. Luke got his hand chopped by vader and Anakin got his hand chopped by Dooku. Yeah we can point out specifics but it just felt unbelievable.
She got a quicker start with the force than any other major character and we hardly know her. Luke got his hand chopped by vader and Anakin got his hand chopped by Dooku. Yeah we can point out specifics but it just felt unbelievable.
That's right! Luke got his hand cut off...by one of the most powerful Force users of all time, and after defending himself without almost any other injury for over ten minutes.
Is Rey very skilled? Sure.
But considering all the stuff Luke and (even more so) Anakin have done with the help of the force I really don't find that Rey's competence is something we can legitimately criticize as being unusual in Star Wars.
Anakin flying a fighter in Episode 1? Even the crazy pod racing. Way before he had any training. Then being "the best pilot in the galaxy" and so on.
Luke's development was slower but oh well... he still managed to use the force to destroy the first Death Star. Unlike Rey he had zero experience with fighting or surviving. She was a scavenger, independent, athletic, smart. He was a fucking farmer who lived with his uncle and aunt at the age of 20-something.
Rey managed to hold her own against an injured Kylo Ren (nasty blaster wound for sure) and Kylo himself isn't fully trained and certainly emotionally unstable.
I don't see anything out of the ordinary for a Star Wars movie.
I'm just super happy we have a female Jedi-in-training (I guess)! Finally.
I feel like a little girl again.
But considering all the stuff Luke and (even more so) Anakin have done with the help of the force I really don't find that Rey's competence is something we can legitimately criticize as being unusual in Star Wars.
Anakin flying a fighter in Episode 1? Even the crazy pod racing. Way before he had any training. Then being "the best pilot in the galaxy" and so on.
Luke's development was slower but oh well... he still managed to use the force to destroy the first Death Star. Unlike Rey he had zero experience with fighting or surviving. She was a scavenger, independent, athletic, smart. He was a fucking farmer who lived with his uncle and aunt at the age of 20-something.
Rey managed to hold her own against an injured Kylo Ren (nasty blaster wound for sure) and Kylo himself isn't fully trained and certainly emotionally unstable.
I don't see anything out of the ordinary for a Star Wars movie.
I'm just super happy we have a female Jedi-in-training (I guess)! Finally.
I feel like a little girl again.
Well Anakin had done pod racing before, he just hadn't finished a race. And the fighter did take off on autopilot once in space A2 took off the autopilot.
But really Rey's skills go above and beyond anything we've seen before. She's certainly capable of doinig just about anything. The explaination behind that should be an interesting one.
Not only this, but Kylo Ren seemed to have no control over his emotions and seemed to be fighting them throughout the movie. He's also shown to be arrogant and incompetent at the same time.
Can I have the Blu-ray now, please? (4K, if at all possible!)
Also, just because Rey defeats an injured, unhinged Ren (during their mental duel, as well as their physical one) doesn't mean she's capable of doing anything. It simply means that Ren is a rather unstable character (a factor in his infatuation with the Dark Side, no doubt), while Rey is a more well-rounded, confident, focused character.
More generally, though, Rey is a character who demonstrates that, while she needs help to be rescued (the arrival of Finn, Solo, and Chewie), she's not helpless and is perfectly capable of resisting all on her own. She quite explicitly avoids the "damsel in distress" trope ("Stop taking my hand!") and demonstrates real growth (from fixating on the past and a refusal to face "the truth" as Maz puts it, to accepting the Force and living in the moment).
I'm not sure how that translates a "Mary Sue" label, unless the critique is lazy, simplistic, and myopic (at the very least). I certainly don't remember that label being applied to Luke. Or Anakin. So I (not-so-innocently wonder) why a critique would mention it now ...
More generally, though, Rey is a character who demonstrates that, while she needs help to be rescued (the arrival of Finn, Solo, and Chewie), she's not helpless and is perfectly capable of resisting all on her own. She quite explicitly avoids the "damsel in distress" trope ("Stop taking my hand!") and demonstrates real growth (from fixating on the past and a refusal to face "the truth" as Maz puts it, to accepting the Force and living in the moment).
I'm not sure how that translates a "Mary Sue" label, unless the critique is lazy, simplistic, and myopic (at the very least). I certainly don't remember that label being applied to Luke. Or Anakin. So I (not-so-innocently wonder) why a critique would mention it now ...
Yeah but that's after training with the best Jedi master in the universe, Yoda. And he still loses and suffers. All those characters suffered even though they had training, except this one, who has had none.
And the specifics aren't the point really, it's that this new hero beat the villain with zero suffering right out of the gate. It defies what we've seen of the force in characters before, which would be fine if it weren't extremely cheesy.
That's just my opinion though, something I hope is made better by the next movie explaining she had some training previously.
I certainly don't remember that label being applied to Luke. Or Anakin. So I (not-so-innocently wonder) why a critique would mention it now ...
Because as mentioned about it doesn't apply to them, they suffered for their victories. It's not about the gender of the character at all..
You mentioned a few specifics, gotta be prepared for people to pick at them.
No, really, the specifics are the point. Using the "Mary Sue" label means the critique lazily shunts the character into a gross overgeneralization that conveniently ignores the specifics - which, in this case, include a very flawed, weakened villain, and a confident and inexperienced hero who may have a very strong (if latent) connection to the Force by way of her lineage.
Specifics are also important considering that the label seems to have cropped up now, when similar characters weren't so explicitly subjected to it.
ETA:
As I've said before, I can accept that, for some viewers, Rey is an OP character. But the mystery surrounding her, and from what we see on screen from Ren, means that there's (potentially a lot) more to this than what we've seen thus far. If no further explanation for her powers is offered, then I would agree with the critique that she's too powerful too quickly. But I'm both withholding judgment until we learn more, and avoiding clumsy labels that don't contribute to a detailed assessment and critique of the character.
