Oh you're one of those people.
My two favourite movies of this decade are probably Mad Max and Pacific Rim, whose main characters are women who aren't Mary Sues.
Rey in The Force Awakens (Possible Spoilers)
- Thread starter Captain Nebula
- Start date
Oh you're one of those people.
My two favourite movies of this decade are probably Mad Max and Pacific Rim, whose main characters are women who aren't Mary Sues.
Is Rey very skilled? Sure.
But considering all the stuff Luke and (even more so) Anakin have done with the help of the force I really don't find that Rey's competence is something we can legitimately criticize as being unusual in Star Wars.
Anakin flying a fighter in Episode 1? Even the crazy pod racing. Way before he had any training. Then being "the best pilot in the galaxy" and so on.
Luke's development was slower but oh well... he still managed to use the force to destroy the first Death Star. Unlike Rey he had zero experience with fighting or surviving. She was a scavenger, independent, athletic, smart. He was a fucking farmer who lived with his uncle and aunt at the age of 20-something.
Rey managed to hold her own against an injured Kylo Ren (nasty blaster wound for sure) and Kylo himself isn't fully trained and certainly emotionally unstable.
I don't see anything out of the ordinary for a Star Wars movie.
I'm just super happy we have a female Jedi-in-training (I guess)! Finally.
I feel like a little girl again.
Yes, Anakin was also a terrible terrible character and the actors life has been ruined cause of it
^ If your critiques keep using that term, they'll continue to be lazy, generalized and, otherwise, pointless (since it's been demonstrated that the character does indeed have flaws, makes mistakes, and is potentially much more than the embodiment of wish-fulfillment from the storytellers).
Else, consider including specific discussions, and avoid such blatantly undermining (to validity of the critique) terminology. Honestly, let's move past the (clumsily applied) term and discuss specifics. That's much more interesting and illuminating.
Else, consider including specific discussions, and avoid such blatantly undermining (to validity of the critique) terminology. Honestly, let's move past the (clumsily applied) term and discuss specifics. That's much more interesting and illuminating.
It describes her character perfectly therefore I'll continue using the term - I've expanded on why she is a poorly written character a bunch of times. The entire rebuking of it seems to come from complete speculation and stretching to justify why she is a flawless character. Flawless characters are boring, she is not an underdog in any way. If you want, go watch Mad Max or Pacific Rim for characters who aren't complete garbage.
The term has been rebuked with actual events from the film. That your critiques seem so insistent and predicated on (erroneously) using it demonstrates how pathetic they actually are. First, Rey isn't flawless. Second, as I've repeatedly said, the criticisms of her OP abilities are potentially valid - but require further exploration and explanation. If those abilities are not satisfactorily explained, then they are valid. But since those explanations are an explicit mystery at this point, any criticisms making any determination on them are myopic, flawed, and pointless (at best).
Again, I encourage critiques that focus more on the actual specifics of the character than on overgeneralized, clumsy, lazy terminology. I'm not sure why your comments are so averse to this ... maybe because those critiques lack any sort of conviction to discuss specifics?
Seriously, if your critiques move on from the term, then the discussion would become much more interesting and relevant to the actual character ... rather than on a critique desperately trying to support a rather blatant bias.
Name her character flaws. The entire rebuke to what I've said has been speculation and saying "wait for the next movie!" or complete fan theories about her being Luke's daughter which still means jack shit because Ren is of the same blood.
Personally I didn't think she was flawed very much if at all. Yeah she got knocked out and captured but only so they could show she could completely resist mind probe, do jedi tricks and escape single handedly. She resists dark side temptation easily. Yeah maybe the villain was weaker, but all that conveniently adds up to making this character look even more perfect. Every step she takes in the plot unlocks more and more power for her, in a wish fulfillment kind of way.
edit: Also, overconfidence isn't shown to be a flaw in the movie really. When did it backfire for her? Releasing the Rathtars saved them from the boarding parties.
Luke was weak at first, lost a major fight against vader, struggled with his training with yoda. Anakin struggled the entire time against his own overconfidence and issues with his mom / love interest. Granted in the first movie he's kind of just a super kid - but at that time the audience knows he's going to end up as Darth Vader.
It's not that big of a deal but I hope the character gets some flaws in the next one or at least a cool scar.... something interesting other than vanilla skywalker superhero. Knowing that she trained previously and had amnesia miiight make it more in line with the rest of the movies, but at this point in time it's kind of weird.
edit: Also, overconfidence isn't shown to be a flaw in the movie really. When did it backfire for her? Releasing the Rathtars saved them from the boarding parties.
Luke was weak at first, lost a major fight against vader, struggled with his training with yoda. Anakin struggled the entire time against his own overconfidence and issues with his mom / love interest. Granted in the first movie he's kind of just a super kid - but at that time the audience knows he's going to end up as Darth Vader.
It's not that big of a deal but I hope the character gets some flaws in the next one or at least a cool scar.... something interesting other than vanilla skywalker superhero. Knowing that she trained previously and had amnesia miiight make it more in line with the rest of the movies, but at this point in time it's kind of weird.
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^^ Read the thread. Your critiques have been consistently ignoring her flaws.
But if your critiques truly require the remediation:
Once more, I invite your critique to engage with specific discussions of the character, rather than the weak, lazy attempts to clumsily use a vague generalization. Will your critiques do so? Or will they continue to be vague and lazy and weak?
But if your critiques truly require the remediation:
- She's trapped by her past (repeated expressions of a need to return to Jakku).
- She's overconfident (inadvertently releases the Rathtars)
- She's afraid of her own abilities (rejection of Maz's advice)
- Unwilling to face the truth (runs away into the Forest)
- Is captured by Ren
- Despite escaping Ren's grasp on Starkiller Base, needs help to escape
- Is bested by Ren in the duel ... until she accepts the Force
Once more, I invite your critique to engage with specific discussions of the character, rather than the weak, lazy attempts to clumsily use a vague generalization. Will your critiques do so? Or will they continue to be vague and lazy and weak?
These aren't consistent character flaws....I recommend you watch the video. You can't list "flaws" that go against what actually happens in the movie, example releasing the monsters and then never actually being in real danger from it. Being captured by Ren, then immediately escaping using abilities she should have no knowledge or ability of. Being "scared" of the lightsaber, then using all these force abilities she should have no way of using or knowledge of. It's just awful, they're not flaws when they're going against what we're seeing on screen.
So you admit, they are flaws. Good to know.
Your critique's support is a YT video and not the actual film itself? Denying what happens onscreen (per my list) ... but then requiring comments to be based on what happens onscreen?
Okaaaay ...
Again, I invite your critiques to discuss specifics, rather than a blatantly clumsy, lazy, and obviously misapplied term.
Honestly, Rey's character is not above critique. But let's do so based on the specifics of the film, rather on the predetermined, dismissive, and myopic term your posts continually use as a crutch.
"She is reluctant to accept how awesome she is." isn't what I would call a character flaw.
Neither is "pressing the wrong button" or "not being as good at fighting as she is 5 seconds later when she accepts how awesome she is."
Honestly, I like her, I like the actress and I look forward to seeing more of the character, but all her so-called flaws could easily be seen as strengths by someone else (loyalty, faith, humility.)
^ Not that I entirely agree with your assessment, but your responses are valid points of discussion - all of which avoid the rather embarrassing use of the "Mary Sue" label being so clumsily and lazily bandied about.
Wait, what? Critics everywhere are praising Ridley's fantastic, multilayered performance and what a great and compelling character Rey was... and yet because she's able to pilot the Falcon and defend herself with a lightsaber against an injured opponent people in here think she's a crappy character now? Say huh?
I think it was made pretty clear that she had the same natural Force abilities that Luke and Anakin both had, and yet the whole time Ridley made it apparent that this was someone who had some serious fears and doubts all the way through.
It's not like she was presented as some heroic and invincible Supergirl figure in this movie or anything. And in fact during a lot of that lightsaber battle I remember her being pretty much on the defense or on the retreat from Kylo's attacks, as he slowly backed her up to the cliff. She may have got in some lucky blows, but for the most part it looked like she was just doing her best to survive.
I think it was made pretty clear that she had the same natural Force abilities that Luke and Anakin both had, and yet the whole time Ridley made it apparent that this was someone who had some serious fears and doubts all the way through.
It's not like she was presented as some heroic and invincible Supergirl figure in this movie or anything. And in fact during a lot of that lightsaber battle I remember her being pretty much on the defense or on the retreat from Kylo's attacks, as he slowly backed her up to the cliff. She may have got in some lucky blows, but for the most part it looked like she was just doing her best to survive.
Yes, well, your post includes facts and details from the film.
So, naturally, those'll be ignored in favor of advocating a rather vague and unconvincing critique claiming that she's "too good at stuff."
She shows force abilities more comparable to Luke in RotJ without any on-screen training.
She shows piloting skills far exceeding her experience.
She sets aside her fears and reluctance and immediately bests Kylo, who in spite of his injuries was kicking her ass moments earlier.
There isn't an inherent problem in her having these abilities, a lot of us just would have liked for her to have to earn them rather than simply innately have them if only she accepts her awesomeness.
Luke literally does two things (intentionally, at least) with the force in the entire first movie. He uses it briefly in his lesson with Ben on the Falcon and uses it to aim the torpedo that blew up the Death Star. No telekinesis, no mind tricks, no acrobatics or swordplay.
So you admit, they are flaws. Good to know.
Your critique's support is a YT video and not the actual film itself? Denying what happens onscreen (per my list) ... but then requiring comments to be based on what happens onscreen?
Okaaaay ...
Again, I invite your critiques to discuss specifics, rather than a blatantly clumsy, lazy, and obviously misapplied term.
Honestly, Rey's character is not above critique. But let's do so based on the specifics of the film, rather on the predetermined, dismissive, and myopic term your posts continually use as a crutch.
No, I'm giving you a video because it articulates quickly what my point is.
Flaws are consistent character flaws that disappear or are overcome, making a minor mistake which leads to nothing bad happening to her is not a flaw. A flaw would be cowardice like with Finn, or arrogance like Han Solo. There isn't one time in the movie where she is in trouble, she is completely able to handle herself the whole time against all the odds.
Hang on, the lightsaber battle she pulls the damn lightsaber across the forest to her even though Kylo is trying to do it, overpowering him. He wails on her, she defends, channels the force then kicks his ass. With no training.
This is a common theme through the movie, she beats everyone up and never needs any help, she is perfect at everything.
