Rey in The Force Awakens (Possible Spoilers)
- Thread starter Captain Nebula
- Start date
It's just a problem when your character in your action movies doesn't appear to have many flaws and dispatches most of her enemies fairly easily or when the enemies suddenly become incompetent dealing with them, I mean Rey was being force frozen half an hour ago and was being thrown around into trees a minute or two before - she didn't really work towards anything she does in the movies, do we even see her or hear of her piloting skills?
The Empire and Vader were pretty strong in the first two movies, they didn't lose due to incompetence but suddenly Kylo Ren becomes a bit shit after being really strong for 2/3s of the movie and Phasma is the most incompetent of them all which was disappointing considering her role was bigged up.
The Empire and Vader were pretty strong in the first two movies, they didn't lose due to incompetence but suddenly Kylo Ren becomes a bit shit after being really strong for 2/3s of the movie and Phasma is the most incompetent of them all which was disappointing considering her role was bigged up.
She was told to wait there til they returned for her, that why she wanted to return to Jakku despite Han's job offer. It's unlikely she was taken from Jakku before then. Anythign else is reppy just speculation until we learn more in Eps. VIII and IX. But it is possible that Max Von Sydow's character was put there to keep an eye on her.
Her knowing the Millenium Falcon better than Han and seemingly being able to fly it better was also a bit weird. Luke didn't even know what a flashing light was, or how to effectively jump into hyperspace. It's obviously just my opinion, but by the time the third act rolled around and within the space of a movie she seemed to have shown off and developed a ridiculous amount of abilities and shown no flaws or weaknesses.
It was all very fan fic and self inserty at times. She was a million miles away from the original characters and Finn was infinitely better written, Poe was great in his limited screen time too.
It is unfair to hold it up against the original movies, but we've seen a ton of great female characters in action sci-fi movies that it's a bit disappointing to see it regress to mary sue again.
It was all very fan fic and self inserty at times. She was a million miles away from the original characters and Finn was infinitely better written, Poe was great in his limited screen time too.
It is unfair to hold it up against the original movies, but we've seen a ton of great female characters in action sci-fi movies that it's a bit disappointing to see it regress to mary sue again.
To me, it implies one of two things:
1) Rey is EXTREMELY strong in the Force, more than even Anakin himself. Midichlorian-wise Anakin was over 20,000 per cell; Rey is perhaps 30,000+. Sure, being (probably) Luke's daughter has something to do with it, but only in part. In other words, she could very well be the 'Chosen One' everyone thought Anakin was.
2) The Force is having to intervene in the affairs of the GFFA in a much more direct manner than it's accustomed to. As it's clear Luke won't train any more Jedi (and thus the Jedi truly become extinct) unless drastic action is taken, the Force is 'lowering the bar' for the newly-awakened Rey, allowing her to do what otherwise would require far more practice and effort, in order to ensure that she survives and reaches Luke. Once she begins formal training, she may find her access to the Force throttled down to allow her to learn control.
I didn't say she was a self insert, I said it reminded me of one in an average fan fiction.
And the character isn't just very capable, Luke was a very capable pilot but otherwise pretty whiny and ineffectual. Rey can do everything and is very good at it even if it makes no sense. You wouldn't call Finn a mary sue because he couldn't even beat a stormtrooper with a lightsaber or pilot a ship, he was pretty incompetent at times. She has no flaws at all and just defeated one of the main bad guys with no training.
None of this seems likely to me, especially the chosen one stuff purely because the prequels haven't been referenced at all and are unlikely to be. Besides, Ren has the same lineage as Rey if she is Luke's daughter with infinitely more experience and training.
I agree with this. Her character arc takes her from a loner scavenger at the beginning, to a Jedi master at the end. She can't even work a blaster at one point, but a few minutes later she is picking off stormtroopers without looking. She has never set foot in the Flacon before they escape, yet somehow she is intimately familiar with its most subtle quirks. The only thing she didn't do it slam her fist into the console to get it working.
It stretches credibility.
I agree that "The Force" is at work in her to a high level. Don't forget that whole "How did you do that? I don't know?" after her brilliant piloting of the Falcon.
(I think I'm going to put "The Force" in quotation marks from now on, just like in the early Marvel SW comics)
Kor
(I think I'm going to put "The Force" in quotation marks from now on, just like in the early Marvel SW comics)
Kor
I highly enjoyed this movie but Rey was the one downside... the actress was really corny and her character had immense powers out of nowhere. There's a lot of fan explanations on why she can do that but I don't didn't buy it during the movie. Great movie though and Finn was awesome.
I liked Ridley's performance. It's the one thing that makes me not want to call Rey a Mary Sue though she definitely trod that ground. Even though the film tried to leaven her skills by having her not be a perfect pilot for the Falcon for example, but I don't think they did it enough to show a learning curve. And she was good enough that Han Solo himself wanted to hire her. And credulity nearly got stretched to the breaking point at the big showdown at the end.
I have to wonder if this is part of Abrams's style. Making these big leaps. I mean he had to have Kirk in the captain's chair by the end of 2009 so he moved the story accordingly, if not organically to get him there. And as for the closing scene of TFA he needed Rey there so he fixed the story to get her there.
I have to wonder if this is part of Abrams's style. Making these big leaps. I mean he had to have Kirk in the captain's chair by the end of 2009 so he moved the story accordingly, if not organically to get him there. And as for the closing scene of TFA he needed Rey there so he fixed the story to get her there.
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Well that's just a silly comparison. Vader in ANH (after years of Jedi training, years of immersion in the Dark Side) was on an entirely different level than Ren in TFA.
There's another one of those lazy "mary sue" critiques that doesn't really delve into specifics.
Re: Finn and Poe, that's certainly your prerogative. I happened to find Rey to be a fantastic addition to the Star Wars mythos. She's brave, competent, with plenty of mystery and complexity (running from Maz's place, her desire for family, what was with the Rebel doll in her home, how did she become so talented, etc.) to be explored. Plus, Ridley's performance was excellent, IMO.
It isn't silly at all, Luke had training and got stomped by Vader. Ren still had years of training, but was defeated by Rey who had no training at all even though nothing so far indicated she should've been able to do that. She just destroyed the main villain of the movie with no training or real knowledge of the force.
And Mary Sue is pretty self evident of a criticism. She has a ton of abilities and can do absolutely nothing wrong, she hasn't worked towards them at all. Compare and contrast with the development of original characters. Luke was just a kid with good piloting skills, Han was an arrogant asshole who thought he was better than he was, Leia wasn't exactly mowing down legions of troopers etc. You can even compare and contrast with Finn who gets fucked up by a Stormtrooper and saved by Han.
Rey can do it all, within the space of a movie she displays that she knows the Millenium Falcon better than Han Solo and is stronger in the force than Kylo Ren with zero training and only knowing she may have the force for about a day. She's boring, she's not an underdog.
If they reveal she had jedi training and forgot somehow then it's different, but until then she definitely falls into Mary Sue territory.
Kylo seemed like he was supposed to be at the level of Anakin before he before he fully became Vader. He can force control people and freeze blaster shots, and must have had training from that evil master guy.
He also fully embraced the dark side moments before that fight, which sucks that it didn't give him a power up. Would have made that death all the more meaningful. Instead they use it to make the Mary Sue look more perfect...
Kylo seemed like he was supposed to be at the level of Anakin before he before he fully became Vader. He can force control people and freeze blaster shots, and must have had training from that evil master guy.
He also fully embraced the dark side moments before that fight, which sucks that it didn't give him a power up. Would have made that death all the more meaningful. Instead they use it to make the Mary Sue look more perfect...
Of course it's silly to compare Ren in TFA to Vader in ANH. That's a preposterous notion on just about every level.
As for Rey ... I still maintain the "laziness" of the critique using the Mary Sue label. It's too easy to simply dismiss a character wholesale by using it. Your posts improve mightily when actually discussing specific critiques of her abilities - all of which I have said would prove to be valid if her unusual strengths are not properly explained. But considering the mystery surrounding her character, considering the challenges she faced on Jakku, and her crisis of confidence and strength on Takodana, there's likely more than simple wish-fulfillment to her character.
Of course it's silly to compare Ren in TFA to Vader in ANH. That's a preposterous notion on just about every level.
As for Rey ... I still maintain the "laziness" of the critique using the Mary Sue label. It's too easy to simply dismiss a character wholesale by using it. Your posts improve mightily when actually discussing specific critiques of her abilities - all of which I have said would prove to be valid if her unusual strengths are not properly explained. But considering the mystery surrounding her character, considering the challenges she faced on Jakku, and her crisis of confidence and strength on Takodana, there's likely more than simple wish-fulfillment to her character.
Why is it preposterous? It isn't. What's preposterous is a girl with no experience or training suddenly beating someone with years and years of training. Luke had the upper hand physically on Vader, he had been training and he was no match for Vader at all, it's not comparing Ren to Vader, it's comparing the fights.
And the abilties were unexplained. How does being a scavenger also make you an expert pilot, expert blaster shot after only just being given a gun, expert kendo stick user, expert mechanic etc etc? She is a more competent pilot than Solo, a more competent mechanic than we have seen in any of the movies and without ever having handled a saber before or had any training, does a mind trick and defeats Kylo Ren. I mean the same logic should indicate that old woman she looked at is also a kick ass mechanic, sword fighter, gun fighter etc etc.
She was perfect, she did nothing wrong almost the whole movie and characters seem to regress in combat around her. It became really jarring when she beat Kylo Ren, and then she went off to find Luke. She made Kirk's ascent to Enterprise captain look well thought and pathed out.
I think a good way that the next movies could explain Rey's suddenly strong abilities with the Force would be to reveal that she is Luke Skywalker's daughter. If Luke fathered a child after the events of Return of the Jedi when he had become a mega powerful Jedi, it would explain her latent Force abilities. It would also explain why she was abandoned. After what happened with Ben Solo becoming Kylo Ren, Luke would have good reason to fear that the same thing could happen to Rey. I am fully expecting the next movies to do this.
