Rewatching Picard...

[AntonyF]

2.03 "Assimilation" out of 5

Firstly, poor Elnor. I hope they do some jiggery pokery that time resets and he's back. I know he's not in season three (I don't think, my memory may be wrong) so it may not be good for him. Even if he lives through time shenanigans. they've said they can't be bothered to write for him.

I love the excellent Borg Queen skittering about. How she did the time travel, well Borg pipes and stuff. I'll buy into it. Then they immediately crash the ship into a planet, how very Veridian III of them!

There are some very cool visuals of the Borg Queen against the green lights, I have to say. And I quite like the Borg Queen/Jurati linked scenes. It offers intrigue.

Now, talking of going back in time and divergences in time... I remember this was when I was starting to reach breaking point the first time round. I remember vividly thinking they'll beam into modern day America and go "Oh look at al the homeless people" in some sort of obvious commentary. And BOOM there it is with all the subtlety of a fucking brick.

And I guess it's a two part annoyance that got me then and still resonates with me now - it's too obvious. Star Trek used to tell stories through allegory. Here we just change to what the writer's saw out of their window that morning. It has all the political posturing of a Twitter post.

I as a viewer should not be predicting the next scenes of my TV programme, they should be a surprise. If they are so obvious before they do it, they're failing.

It's an important topic, I'm not denying it... but this just feels like commentary for the social media age. Reinforced by "You're killing it 2024!" said by Raffi and I just roll my eyes like Angel Merkel.

Talking of subtlety of a brick - Europa mission... TO BOLDY GO! See what they did there?

Raffi and Seven head to the top of the tower, tricking the security guard. It's a bit lame, but I guess at least it's reasonably harmless.

Rios... he's met a woman, she's a single mother, she'll be a love interest I have no doubt. Classic TV if a woman turns up next to a man, it'll be a love interest. The single mother element is the whole 'sweep into town and protect lady and her child' trope. I wonder if he'll even stay with her.

And just the whole Rios story... with ICE attacking, it again is just the American writers looking out of their window and there we go. No subtlety. And the ICE agents are also portrayed with no subtlety.

Now... given how ICE has made international news since then they weren't wrong I'll give them that. But it still feels a bit of a sledgehammer. Where is the Trek? Where is the abstraction?

I also may be reading too much into it but isn't it sad that they have a Hispanic actor and he's immediately got to be put into stories of American immigration, back room hospitals etc. It's like the hispanic actress in BSG had to become a drug trafficker. Raffi immediately gets to kick some guy's arse and rise above a very real threat with a gun. But Rios is drawn into the systems of 2024.

I can only equate it slightly as a gay guy I get pissed off that so many gay stories the character is a) dying of Aids b) dies in some other way or c) is mentally tortured. It's very hard to get to the end and they lived and lived a life that is happy and maybe just... okay. That they can be a a person, and they just happen to be gay too.

That doesn't mean that I think those stories shouldn't be told. That the aids epidemic wasn't awful. But it does get tiring when it seems like a cross we must bear in media as it makes good drama I guess.

And I wonder if there's a bit of that here with Rios immediately having to get drawn into that story. That you're Hispanic so you must immediately be plunged into an immigration story as that's what's on the writer's mind and that's what relevant to their area. Heavens forbid the story was in Chile and he could live a story that's relevant to him there. (I would love to hear the views of any Hispanic people and if you can at least see the point I'm trying to make likely very ham fistedly.)

I think the next episode was the one I quit in... should be interesting!

 

[Lord Garth]

I think the next episode was the one I quit in... should be interesting!

So not only have you not seen it, but you also weren't spoiled on any of it either. Thank God I didn't go into any specifics about the episodes set in 2024. I was this close earlier and then I was like, "Nope! I'm not going to take any chances." You're right. It will be interesting.

All I can say is I defended the first and third seasons to the death when they the first airing. And with the second season... I didn't.

And the ICE agents are also portrayed with no subtlety.

Unfortunately, there's no room for subtlety there. It's very black-and-white. But that's my opinion on ICE in general, not just in Picard. This is one time where I wouldn't want subtlety.

Switching to the positives...

Towards the end of "Penance", when Picard was trying to stall for time as he was expected to kill the Borg Queen, that felt really tense, especially as the mob grew more and more impatient.

President Seven is one of the reasons why I wish they could've spent more time with the Confederation.

 

[AntonyF]

So not only have you not seen it, but you also weren't spoiled on any of it either. Thank God I didn't go into any specifics about the episodes set in 2024. I was this close earlier and then I was like, "Nope! I'm not going to take any chances." You're right. It will be interesting.

I believe I know who the Borg queen is in the metal shell, and I think Wesley turns up... but beyond that I don't know the end of season two, how it's resolved or what happens to this cast. So I will have some new Star Trek to watch. Assuming I don't rage quit again.

 

[DonIago]

Spoiler: Potential Spoilers? Is that a big deal?

Data: Captain, sensors indicate that we have just "jumped the shark".

The premises of either of the first two episodes could have made for some compelling viewing for the rest of the season.

Too bad they decided to stick with the premise established here for the rest of the season.

 

[AntonyF]

I appreciate the spoiler warning in this context. I may come check on that after I've seen season two.

 

[AntonyF]

2.04 "Watcher" out of 5

It’s time. The crossover point!

I continue to like the Jurati/Borg Queen scenes. And The Chateau Picard element I like, as a spooky wreck. I’m a sucker for old, derelict buildings, mansions etc. Picard saying he’s having memories of something that hasn’t happened yet is rather evocative.

Picard’s English mother is back too. Still not getting that. I feel they’re trying to explain his English accent with talk of his family going to England during WW2. But did they stay there? And if so how does his mother go from an English accent when Picard is young to a French one when he’s an adult? Maybe it’ll be revealed.

I do love me some Edith Piaf, however.

The scene with the punk rocker I’m not sure if it’s one of the best scenes in Star Trek or the worst. I guess it comes back to it’d be nice in isolation – a throwback to a wonderful film. But the sheer amount of in jokes and references dilutes it. Which is a shame.

Ten. Forward… so it was bad enough that Guinan found a road called Forward and got a bar in number ten. But now it turns out she had it back in the 21st century? So many what the actual fucks (I can see why this episode tipped me over the edge). So now we’re to believe that she had a bar called 10 on Forward and she just happened to find a ship where there is a bar called Ten Forward on deck 10? Which is forward of deck 10 hence its name?

Dear god. Tell me if I’m missing something here. It can be that bad can it?

Then what the fuck happened to Guinan? Well I know they can’t afford Whoopi Goldberg or her schedule doesn’t allow it. But now she’s now young and sassy. And doesn’t know Picard, who she met in the past.

So she went from a quite formal woman appearing in her late 30s in the Samuel Clemens era, to now this, where I guess she’s in her 20s and looks entirely different, and then back to the same late 30s look in the 24th century. Oh… maybe this is why they did that forced thing about being able to change their appearance that I queried in an earlier episode.

But it makes little sense that she looks this way. It also doesn’t feel like Guinan. Why would she be like herself, then not, then herself again?

On to the main ‘plot’ with the rest of the gang…

“Slap on a badge, put on a uniform, you think you can treat people this way?” – social commentary klaxon!

On the police system searching for a Hispanic woman. “My god, there are so many” – social commentary klaxon!



And 26 minutes in is when I quit last time. Seven immediately getting in and driving a car. It’s absurd, and like it’s designed for young children excited by car chases.

I stopped as that scene started and she zoomed off.

I’m sure someone will think “Well actually she was a Borg, so she assimilated races who drove automobiles, so she has that memory…” and NO. It’s just absurd and stupid. It was the draw that broke the camel’s back last time.

But this time I PERSEVERED!

Also incidentally why is that every Hollywood production has to have that “passing horn” noise repeatedly? It’s very bizarre.

And we’ve gone into another Jurati trying to transport people out over a prolonged period as a plot device. Who doesn’t love an exciting transporter scene eh?

Back to Guinan. “And humanity?” *Motions to homeless people” Did you NOT GET IT VIEWERS? Did you not get it? We ended to spell it out to you again. SOCIAL COMMENTARY KLAXON!

“You know who has the luxury of patience here? Someone who looks like you and not like me.” SOCIAL COMMENTARY KLAXON!

Also the irony in Hollywood to say that… where ageism is rampant. You’re more likely to see talking animals get more roles than older women. Only five of the 100 highest-grossing films over the past three years featured a woman over 60. Age is one of the most socially acceptable forms of prejudice. “Boomer” is widely used as a pejorative. And let’s not forget… Guinan herself kept calling him “old man” despite not even knowing him. Proof that prejudice is fine, as long as it’s not the one you have a bug bear over.

I guess they are trying to sell the narrative that it “had potential” in Guinan’s own words which makes her dandy and successful in the 1800s, but she is now struggling. And it’s not entirely unbelievable I grant you – the US has taken many steps back since the episode was filmed, and the UK is being ravaged by the US’s anti-DEI/anti-immigrant influence at this very moment.

So perhaps they are trying to weave the story that everything was hunky dory in the 19th/20th centuries, but the 21st is where it all goes wrong. She wasn’t able to build any wealth for herself in hundreds of years. And that’s perhaps part of the narrative and the story will be How Guinan Got Her Groove Back.

Or maybe it wasn’t hunky dory before the 21st century. Especially for a Black woman in America. So I’m not sure what the answer is to this story, but it needs to be more clearly articulated that “I’ve been here hundreds of years and nothing has changed”… and in fairness that’s supported by “This century took off a hood and put on a suit”. I’ll give them the due for that sentence as it’s a zinger and it’s become even more true since the episode aired.

But for an immigrant from another world Guinan hasn’t done too badly in a place that has given her a home for hundreds of years. And it will still clash against “Time’s Arrow” I think whatever they do. That showed a confident, happy, successful Guinan – at least on the surface.

Rios… “He’s got a face like a Ferengi” – said to a 21st century woman. As she’s a dumb 21st century woman who don’t know about Ferengi eh, but you the viewer get that don’t you? Lolz. He might as well have winked at the camera.

“I'm on an ongoing mission to explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and civilizations” They say that on the Star Trek programme everyone! Picard said it! Kirk said it! Rios said it! You see what they did there? They made the actor say the words in 21st century earth that they say on the credits of Star Trek!!!!!!

The writing genius is *chef’s kiss*.

The watcher with the eyes thing, moving from person from person I found a cool moment. Pleasantly creepy and a quiet menace in a very public space. Although I did think an "old man" holding a child’s hand was going to kick off some trouble.

I kept thinking who will be the watcher.. it’ll be someone we know. They couldn’t possibly just have a new person. And Laris… gotta admit I wasn’t expecting that. I look forward to what tomfoolery they say to justify that.

No idea what’s going on with Q at the end or who the blonde woman is, but I guess I’m going to find out. Because just like Jonah and the whale I’m going in…

 

[Set Harth]

the UK is being ravaged by the US’s anti-DEI/anti-immigrant influence at this very moment.

Why can't British people have their own opinions without it being blamed on the US?

 

[AntonyF]

Why can't British people have their own opinions without it being blamed on the US?

Because the US is directly exerting influence over European allies. This isn't opinion or debating the right and wrongs of it, it's a matter of public record. The US has been very open that they think Europe has lost its way and wish to push a white Christian agenda. They have exerted pressured on European countries to rollback DEI if they wish to do business with the US. JD Vance is very vocal on the matter and has stood at the Munich Conference and lectured European nations about how they perceive the failings around Christianity and democracy. He stood with the Hungarian far-right leader to try and help swing that election. And he's blamed immigration for the death of a British citizen which he linked to immigration and DEI. And the US is pushing anti-abortion narratives in the UK despite it rarely being on the agenda here. US groups are targeting UK libraries to get them to remove books. That's just a few examples.

The UK was never sunlit uplands. Immigration in particular has been a growing concern in the populace for years. But it's being heavily inflamed right now as part of a multi-prong programme. As such DEI which was rarely mentioned here is now the hot topic of political parties who want to follow the US and blame it for everyone's ills. The Conservative party says it will strip out DEI within public services, and Nigel Farage of Reform says the UK is racist against white people while banning Pride marches and flags.

But to be honest I'd rather not digress into real world politics debate in this thread... indeed I think it's quite clear that the heavy-handed intrusion of present day politics into Picard is one of my complaints.

 

[Set Harth]

And he's blamed immigration for the death of a British citizen which he linked to immigration and DEI.

People are mad about it on their own, they're not looking to Vance to tell them what to think.

 

[Lord Garth]

People are mad about it on their own, they're not looking to Vance to tell them what to think.

Which has nothing to do with Picard Season 2.

Then what the fuck happened to Guinan? Well I know they can’t afford Whoopi Goldberg or her schedule doesn’t allow it. But now she’s now young and sassy. And doesn’t know Picard, who she met in the past.

That bugged me. Someone on here once said history was changed, so now Guinan doesn't remember. But that doesn't work for me because if Guinan doesn't remember, then the Punk on the Bus doesn't remember, and I want the Punk on the Bus to remember Star Trek IV because being a follow-up is the whole point of that scene. At best, it's sloppy. At worst, it's trying to have it both ways.

I can understand maybe Guinan having a hard time remembering Picard, because it's been 130 years, but he should've brought up the events of "Time's Arrow" and he didn't even try. And that should've jogged her memory.

I’m sure someone will think “Well actually she was a Borg, so she assimilated races who drove automobiles, so she has that memory…” and NO. It’s just absurd and stupid. It was the draw that broke the camel’s back last time.

I've actually got something better. Paris taught her all about driving while she was on the holodeck, back in the Voyager Days! All of it off-camera.

 

[AntonyF]

I've actually got something better. Paris taught her all about driving while she was on the holodeck, back in the Voyager Days! All of it off-camera.

Great point on the punk remembering but a Guinan not.

You know that reason above would almost work. He was car and ship obsessed. It's the least worst option, let's put it that way!

 

[Hellbird]

I loved seeing Guinan being played by Whoopi again, but I feel like another actor that appears later on could've been utilised differently and been an excellent alternative for young Guinan.

There's a lot of "That would've been better, had they done this" about this season.

 

[Turtletrekker]

My theory is that my Guinan didn't remember Picard because in this new timeline, Picard never traveled back to the 19th century.

As for Punk on Bus, clearly the whale probe didn't destroy Earth in the 23rd century in this timeline, so it's not inconceivable that some version of those events happened in both timelines. Ultimately, it was just a silly joke that is easily ignored, but this sort of thing is one of the things that gives me such a low opinion of season 2. There's another ST4 reference coming up that's even a bigger groan than this one.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Gillian Taylor's face on a milk carton? Seriously, one of those missing persons billboards like they're posting for Jodi Huisentruit would be an option rather than just having ads for made-up products.

 

[AntonyF]

My theory is that my Guinan didn't remember Picard because in this new timeline, Picard never travelled back to the 19th century.

Hmm. I guess so. It gets very confusing when you start to unpick these threads!

 

[Detached Nacelle]

My theory is that my Guinan didn't remember Picard because in this new timeline, Picard never traveled back to the 19th century.

I would certainly say that is the Betazoid's razor.

As for Punk on Bus, clearly the whale probe didn't destroy Earth in the 23rd century in this timeline, so it's not inconceivable that some version of those events happened in both timelines.

But there'd have no Spock to nerve pinch him in the racist timeline. As you said just a little in joke, an innocuous shoulder rub designed to make the audience go hey I remember that. That or he's an El-Aurian too and he was remembering the other timeline because Seven said the same words as Kirk. At least af-kelt didn't make him throw up all over the bus.

 

[AntonyF]

2.05 "Fly Me to the Moon" out of 5

My first brand new Picard episode! And I didn't mind it. No idea what's going on really, but I hope there's some deviously clever writing than silliness right? Right? *Padme questioning expression*

I am increasingly thinking this some sort of illusion or dreamscape or something rather than time travel. Because that was Elnor that got off the bus. It was clearly him. It wasn't a shot of the back of someone's head that may have confused Raffi - we saw it was him. Similarly Laris. It's her in human form, but it's clearly here and they never explain why. And Soong and his daughter (more on that in a moment.)

I love how they are worried about a time divergence and immediately let about eight men out of custody to go elsewhere and do who knows what. Not even necessarily nefarious stuff but it sets so many things into motion, who they may meet or not meet... I guess it doesn't matter, just a load of immigrants yeah? You're very important people, just inconsequential to our timeline.

As I said I like Jurati and I really like the Borg Queen so continue to be entertained by their scenes. Her calling France is so mischievous, and I just love that mischievous edge to this Borg Queen. Although have they still not done basic scans to check the person exists when the voice is heard for security verification? I mean, my phone needs my fingerprint... come on.

The whole watcher thing right now isn't that compelling. Particularly if she's meant to be protecting Renée she's doing a pretty shit job letting Q meddle in her affairs. But also what does a watcher do exactly... she's clearly not watching her 24/7 and what warrants good interference vs bad interference? I doubt she knows.

I don't entirely get the Renée thing and this ties back to the Picard family who went to England... and now she was born in France. But has an English accent. Yet is in America. And if she was a Picard in France that implies she was born Picard (no sign of a husband, and quite young and focused on going to the moon and stuff - it doesn't feel like she's married into the Picard lineage to thus be his ancestor.)

Soong and his daughter... I mean... what the hell. Spiner AGAIN. And I said about lack of genetic diversity in the Soongs but this is getting silly now. But how on earth is a Soji-alike his daughter? A Soong had a daughter and handed down a picture, and then Noonian Soong put that memory into Data's head so he could paint a picture of her so that Maddox could take a molecule of Data then thought "I know I'll make the synths like her" or something? This adds to that dream-like scenario rather than time travel, for me.

Despite find this whole part of the story daft, I did for a counter thought for a brief moment think that a Star Trek anthology show would be cool. Just featuring seperate stories like this one. Science-led, future gazing....

I did find it funny though when he jabbed his daughter with the injection and didn't say "Venture out, slowly..." Nah he's gonna take down that drone shield while she's in the middle of the garden. That's bold! But it does help the dramatic wearing off the drug, mind you...

Q is certainly interfering, and is this isn't his usual MO. Normally he's someone who watches and taunts, but to actively be interfering is something else.

It's time for another Ocean's 11 exposition/heist scene. The 21st century space conference scans their faces - yet a 24th century ship can't manage that!

Love me some Fly Me to the Moon, once again the music of Picard delights me.

Then the finale... and Scorpius Borg Queen is something I can get behind!

The Soong stuff wiffs but it wasn't disinteresting and the watcher premise feels stretched, but overall I enjoyed the episode.

 

[DonIago]

It felt like a real stretch to work Spiner and the actor who played Soji into this season, and I think they might have been better served not making their universe feel quite so small.

And it speaks to a larger issue that's annoyed me since the TNG films...that they seem completely terrified of the idea of doing anything involving TNG-related where Spiner doesn't play a part.

That said, he was delightful in his LDS episode.

 

[AntonyF]

And it speaks to a larger issue that's annoyed me since the TNG films...that they seem completely terrified of the idea of doing anything involving TNG-related where Spiner doesn't play a part.

If I have to admit it makes me dislike Spiner. Just a little, not a lot. But he was elevated in the films. He wanted Data to die. And then it feels a bit like he'll come back at the drop of a hat. And there's only so many damn Soongs I can stomach.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Soong and his daughter... I mean... what the hell. Spiner AGAIN. And I said about lack of genetic diversity in the Soongs but this is getting silly now. But how on earth is a Soji-alike his daughter? A Soong had a daughter and handed down a picture, and then Noonian Soong put that memory into Data's head so he could paint a picture of her so that Maddox could take a molecule of Data then thought "I know I'll make the synths like her" or something? This adds to that dream-like scenario rather than time travel, for me.

@AntonyF -- do not read until you've finished the season.

Spoiler: To Defy Fate by Dayton Ward

A Picard novel which is 99.9% postseason 3, has Picard, Beverly and Raffi teaming up with Wesley and the organization he and The Travelers represent to take down a temporal threat from a rogue agent.

The novel features Kore in her new role, but I noticed that neither Raffi nor Picard noted on the resemblance between Kore and Dahj/Soji. Raffi, in fact, met her "off camera".

I thought that was an odd choice at first, but then I came to see it as a wise decision to not open that particular can of worms. Of course I still have about 30 pages left...

Ultimately, I was just pleased that Isa Briones got some representation in the novel. Although Soji is the character I most want to see some follow up on, followed closely by Elenor.