Revisiting ST-TNG...

[RAMA]

True. But if an sf fan dislikes Blade Runner, they may have good reasons. If someone who generally hates sf dislikes Blade Runner, their reasons may, on the other hand, be very unconvincing.

My point is just that, there's very little purpose in reviewing a show whose sensibilities you don't and never have agreed with.

I'm a huge Star Trek: The Next Generation fan and Warped9 has given far more three, four and five star reviews than I ever would have. So I honestly don't question whether his general views about it are making him dishonest in his reviews.

For me, Tapestry is dull with a setup I just can't buy. I never once thought Picard was in any type of danger from the chest wound or from Q. Then you want me to buy that someone as talented as Jean-Luc Picard would just kick around Starfleet in a dead-end job for thirty-five years...

They were sellin' the idea, I just ain't buyin'.

One thing Ive discovered over the years with fan ratings of movies or tv, such as imdb or this board, there is a surprising amount of people who live rather simple, black and white lifestyle (Sort of the George W Bushification of fandom if you will) where something is either good or bad, its either 4 or 5 stars or 0 or 1. You can see that predilection on many polls where the lowest rating often has more votes than the next several bottom ratings. I think your ratings seem to fall into that category somewhat, even though you like the show. As for Warped, you have to sort of take the ratings with a grain of salt, I mean basically stated he was barely even interested in watching the last few seasons of the show based on vague recollection almost 20 yrs ago. With those odds I wouldn't want to be in a courtroom with him as a judge.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

True. But if an sf fan dislikes Blade Runner, they may have good reasons. If someone who generally hates sf dislikes Blade Runner, their reasons may, on the other hand, be very unconvincing.

My point is just that, there's very little purpose in reviewing a show whose sensibilities you don't and never have agreed with.

I'm a huge Star Trek: The Next Generation fan and Warped9 has given far more three, four and five star reviews than I ever would have. So I honestly don't question whether his general views about it are making him dishonest in his reviews.

For me, Tapestry is dull with a setup I just can't buy. I never once thought Picard was in any type of danger from the chest wound or from Q. Then you want me to buy that someone as talented as Jean-Luc Picard would just kick around Starfleet in a dead-end job for thirty-five years...

They were sellin' the idea, I just ain't buyin'.

You know there are great men and women in history who became something else because of a twist of fate. Some almost were killed before they became great. Others took a path they were unlikely to take otherwise if it werent for a great event...in Picard's case, his near-death led him to become what he was. Its not unusual for those who almost die to re-evaluate their life. For this, and the other 2 reasons I mentioned last night, I don't think any of this is far fetched at all. I think you're just grasping at straws at this point.

Picard never WAS supposed to really die from a chest wound...

This is where the whole bland aspect comes in. If they do their research and find the right actor, you create potential to further explore the young Picard character.

Or you could stick with the actor who is already the heart of the show and most engaging and go from there...its actually more unique that they used the same actor rather than recasting.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

One thing Ive discovered over the years with fan ratings of movies or tv, such as imdb or this board, there is a surprising amount of people who live rather simple, black and white lifestyle (Sort of the George W Bushification of fandom if you will) where something is either good or bad, its either 4 or 5 stars or 0 or 1.

Nice insult. I actually believe in being objective when I watch something. Instead of just bowing down and kissing the ring of whatever happens to be popular at a given moment.

I found Tapestry dull and poorly set-up. I didn't like it fifteen years ago and I don't like it today.

Tastes vary from person to person... live with it.

 

[Ghrakh]

Far too harsh--this is one of the best episodes of the series, and certainly one of the best uses of the "Q" character. Stewart playing his character at a younger age is a major conceit, but since the episode is basically a fantasy facilitated by Q, I don't mind. The episode explains it away, anyway. Besides, Stewart is a terrific actor and I'd hate to have to sit through an hour devoted to the Picard-character that sidelined him as an actor.

Stewart was the only logical choice to play the young Picard actually, because he was still the older, wiser Captain in that situation, with all his experiences intact. They addressed it in the episode, his friends saw him as young because of Q's magic, and that was that. I had no problem with it.

If the episode was merely scenes of young Picard in the Academy days, then having Stewart play that role would have been odd.

 

[Harvey]

Far too harsh--this is one of the best episodes of the series, and certainly one of the best uses of the "Q" character. Stewart playing his character at a younger age is a major conceit, but since the episode is basically a fantasy facilitated by Q, I don't mind. The episode explains it away, anyway. Besides, Stewart is a terrific actor and I'd hate to have to sit through an hour devoted to the Picard-character that sidelined him as an actor.

Stewart was the only logical choice to play the young Picard actually, because he was still the older, wiser Captain in that situation, with all his experiences intact. They addressed it in the episode, his friends saw him as young because of Q's magic, and that was that. I had no problem with it.

If the episode was merely scenes of young Picard in the Academy days, then having Stewart play that role would have been odd.

Exactly. You've said it better than I could.

 

[Warped9]

Here's the thing: it did happen. When you wake up, you know if you just had a dream. Picard knows he didn't. So it was real.

No, there you're wrong. Watch the end of the episode when Picard and Riker are talking. It's evident Picard isn't entirely sure whether it was a dream or not. It's left ambiguous.

 

[Warped9]

"Birthright" Part II ****

Worf is held in a settlement where Klingons and Romulans coexist peacefully.

I found this better than Part I partly because it was focused on one story rather than two. If I have any major quibble it's that I found it somewhat on the slow side, at least during the first half.

One thing I've always found hard to reconcile is the divergence in behaviour between TOS Klingons and TNG era Klingons. More specifically the way the whole honour shtick is handled. In TOS I'm thinking more specifically about Kang in "Day Of The Dove" who seemed to be closest (in some respects) to how TNG era Klingons are depicted. Kang didn't seem to have a major problem with being taken prisoner as he immediately began thinking of escape rather than expressing regret that he wasn't allowed to die. Then again Kang exhibited a greater sense of rationality and intelligence than most contemporary style Klingons.

I also think Worf looks silly with the ponutail. It's so '90s.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Birthright II is a 2 star episode in my opinion--just an all around dull episode. Ba'el--ugh, more Klingon rituals and Worf angst--bleh. And the rest of the crew were pretty much non-existent. It could have been interesting but the final product was anything but.

I liked Worf's ponytail myself.

 

[Anwar]

What got my goat about this, is that Worf seemed offended that Klingons and Romulans had managed to put aside their hatred and live in peace together. And the story TOOK HIS SIDE.

If he felt offended, and it was JUST him, I'd get it. But it's the implication that he's morally right is what got to me.

 

[Warped9]

I think Worf was more offended that these Klingons weren't of a kind he recognized and it irked him because his whole life he had strived to be the ideal Klingon. In his travels aboard the Enterprise he didn't seemed to be bothered much by how other races had adapted to new situations, but he couldn't accept it amongst his own kind.

Of course he may have had a point about the children being ignorant of their heritage. Curiously I thought Worf here acted rather Kirk like when he came across some societies which he thought were wrong.

 

[Trekker4747]

What got my goat about this, is that Worf seemed offended that Klingons and Romulans had managed to put aside their hatred and live in peace together. And the story TOOK HIS SIDE.

If he felt offended, and it was JUST him, I'd get it. But it's the implication that he's morally right is what got to me.

The Klingons and the Romulans living together were there due to the Klingons being held captive and the offspring were there and brainwashed into thinking nothing was wrong.

Think of it this way, back during the times of slavery plantation owners held their slaves captive let's assume that during the Civil War one of those planation owners rounded up some slaves, moved to an isolated island and set-up shop naming his "favorite slave" as bing co-operated of this island. Over the course of a generation the offspring of the slaves are told that they're "free" to live and do as they please so long as they stay on the island and obey the rules. They're treated "well", fed and provided for and aren't forced into severe labor the island has mostly grown into it's own little society.

But it's a society based off of repression, the slaves and their children are told not to sing songs from their racial origin, not to engage in African practices or to speak in their native tounges and the children are not even told of their races' ways. What happens in this episode is not an example of two groups working together to bridge a new way of life or a peace betwen two people it was generational oppresion and sterilization of a race. In fact it's sort-of demonstrated that the "Klingon way" wasn't well tolerated by the Romulan commander/leaders.

Sorry, I'm on Worf's side on this issue if it was a much more equal society and not one fordged on captivity and oppresion you'd have an argument but that wasn't the case here.

 

[ALF]

Anyone who can make it through to season 3 of TNG should like it. The production quality and performances really start to shine then.

That's the trick... making it through the first 2 seasons because there are slim pickings. I've suggested that some may do better starting at season 3 and picking up the first two seasons last.

 

[TrekAlliance92]

First two seasons last? Maybe to some, which is fine because we all have different tastes and all, but the first two seasons are my favorite, followed by the third. They have many more hits to me. For example, Season 1 has seventeen episodes I'd consider 3-stars out of 5 or higher, compared to say seven in Season 5.

 

[BillJ]

First two seasons last? Maybe to some, which is fine because we all have different tastes and all, but the first two seasons are my favorite, followed by the third. They have many more hits to me. For example, Season 1 has seventeen episodes I'd consider 3-stars out of 5 or higher, compared to say seven in Season 5.

 

[ALF]

I feel that a hardcore TOSer would likely respond well to the first 2 seasons of TNG.
A newcomer to trek in general might respond better to season 3 and beyond.

 

[RAMA]

First two seasons last? Maybe to some, which is fine because we all have different tastes and all, but the first two seasons are my favorite, followed by the third. They have many more hits to me. For example, Season 1 has seventeen episodes I'd consider 3-stars out of 5 or higher, compared to say seven in Season 5.

Well people seem to make this an either-or issue...I admire much of the look and "feel" of early STNG, and think there are a handful of brilliant episodes...but in terms of overall quality, season 1-2 combined produced a total of 8 5-star episodes on my personal list, season 5 alone produced 11...

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

I think Worf was more offended that these Klingons weren't of a kind he recognized and it irked him because his whole life he had strived to be the ideal Klingon. In his travels aboard the Enterprise he didn't seemed to be bothered much by how other races had adapted to new situations, but he couldn't accept it amongst his own kind.

Of course he may have had a point about the children being ignorant of their heritage. Curiously I thought Worf here acted rather Kirk like when he came across some societies which he thought were wrong.

The difference here being the society was of his OWN kind, and a modern technological society, rather than a society that was able to be coerced by Kirk or his UFP values. I think Trekker summarizes the situation well in his post above, so I won't re-iterate it. The fact that this episode can inpsire this discussion really shows the depth of the episode.

RAMA

 

[Noname Given]

I feel that a hardcore TOSer would likely respond well to the first 2 seasons of TNG.
A newcomer to trek in general might respond better to season 3 and beyond.

This TOSer really dislikes the majority of Season 1 and Seasn 2 TNG - like most, I think it started to hit a stride in Season 3 and even though I never grew to like it as much as TOS; I did enjoy it for most of Seasons 3 -7 (MUCH more than either of the first two seasons.)

 

[Warped9]

"Starship Mine" ***

Picard has to thwart the plans of thieves aboard a deserted Enterprise.

This had its good moments, but it was also bogged down by some tedious scenes, namely those in the base's reception room. Watching Data emulating small talk should have been funny, but I found it excrutiating. Picard keeps his own saddle?---hokay. Seeing Picard tackle a guy was cool, and he actually seems to know how to do a Vulcan neck pinch? Interesting that not long ago 24th century starships were using dilithium yet now they’re using trilithium?

I couldn't escape the feeling that this was TNG's take on a Die Hard like story yet without that film's charm, fun and energy.

 

[Anwar]

Die Hard in space, that's exactly what I was thinking when I saw this.

Funny thing is, the guy Picard neck-pinches is Tim Russ who'd go on to play Tuvok in Voyager.