Orphan Black Season 5 - The Final Trip

[Christopher]

Exactly. The location of some shows are very important to the show, Orphan Black isn't one of those shows. It makes it relatable to anyone in the northeast part off North America.

But that is not why they do it! As I keep saying, it is not a new or unique practice -- it's been routine for Canadian-made shows sold in the US for a long time. It's got nothing to do with Orphan Black specifically. It's about the fact that Canadians have a hard time selling their shows to US broadcasters if they're overtly set in Canada, because Americans are perennially uninterested in anything that isn't about us. Why should a show have to be set on this side of the border to be "relatable" to Americans? Is Canada such an intractably alien culture? Of course not. The whole reason it's even possible for Canadian shows to pass as American is that the differences are minor. But unfortunately, even those minor differences are more than many American viewers are willing to accept.

And a show's location doesn't have to be essential to the story to be worth mentioning. It didn't particularly matter that Mary Richards worked in Minneapolis or that Mork from Ork landed in Boulder. That detail wasn't essential, but there was still no reason to hide it, and choosing a specific location allowed the setting to have more texture. Given that Orphan Black actually is set in Toronto, given that this fact is confirmed repeatedly in various onscreen documents and production details, I don't see how it would hurt the show's storytelling any if it acknowledged that fact a bit more openly from time to time. And it surely would if it weren't for the business difficulties of selling overtly non-US-based shows to US networks.

 

[bigdaddy]

It's got nothing to do with Orphan Black specifically.

*Looks around*

This is the Orphan Black topic right? Specifically Orphan Black? I didn't wonder into a different place talking about how Canadians get screwed when it deals with TV shows?

 

[Christopher]

This is the Orphan Black topic right? Specifically Orphan Black? I didn't wonder into a different place talking about how Canadians get screwed when it deals with TV shows?

What a bizarre question. The fact of the city's relative anonymity was raised, and a hypothesis was offered as to the reason for that anonymity. That hypothesis was incorrect, and I cited the sources that explain the real reason behind it. Since when was it wrong to direct someone to the correct answer to their question?

Every creation has a context that influences its content. You can talk about Shakespeare's plays and discuss how his story choices were often shaped by royal dictates and politics rather than the internal needs of the plot. You can talk about I Love Lucy and how its avoidance of the word "pregnant" was forced on it by external societal trends rather than something the writers chose to do for the purposes of the story they were telling. You can talk about Babylon 5 and how its change of commanders after season 1 was the result of the original lead's medical problems requiring a radical reworking of the original story plans. Every creation is influenced by factors outside itself, sometimes against the creators' wishes, sometimes to the detriment of what the creators are trying to do. And of course it is worth talking about those external influences when they're useful in understanding what shaped that creation. No work exists in a vacuum, so it's bizarre to say that people discussing a show should be forbidden from acknowledging the influence of anything beyond that show.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Soooooo.. back on topic... will we see Tony or Krystal Goderitch this season? Seems kinda strange that they were introduced, then dumped... Will they get the illness that affected others?

Also, I wish they had introduced a Spanish speaking clone... Tatiana could certainly pass, and it would be an interesting role, I think.

Lastly, any possibility of another survivor of Helsinki?

 

[tomalak301]

Soooooo.. back on topic... will we see Tony or Krystal Goderitch this season? Seems kinda strange that they were introduced, then dumped... Will they get the illness that affected others?

Also, I wish they had introduced a Spanish speaking clone... Tatiana could certainly pass, and it would be an interesting role, I think.

Lastly, any possibility of another survivor of Helsinki?

The preview said we would see Krystal again. Not sure if I want to see tony again as there's just too much stuff to wrap up.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I wonder if we'll ever see Cal again, too. I also keep hoping for Marion to return, but on-screen evidence seems to have closed that door.

 

[bigdaddy]

I hope we never see Cal again, that be a waste of the show's time.

I'm in favor of Tony showing up, but it's not needed. Maybe just a little thing even going "We found him to give him the cure".

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Maybe for one big, massive clone reunion at the end.

If Marion is alive, she's probably in a facility, like Virginia. Hell, maybe the same facility.

 

[tomalak301]

Maybe for one big, massive clone reunion at the end.

If Marion is alive, she's probably in a facility, like Virginia. Hell, maybe the same facility.

I wonder why Forbes didn't want to come back to play Marion. I would have loved a scene between her and Ferdinand in Season 3. Marion was one of those regrettable missed opportunities of this series.

 

[Christopher]

I wonder why Forbes didn't want to come back to play Marion.

Probably because she got hired to play Retro Girl in season 1 of Powers. That was a series-regular gig (at least for that season), so presumably the pay was better than for a recurring role like Charlotte. Also it was a good character. Forbes was the best thing about Powers.

 

[tomalak301]

Probably because she got hired to play Retro Girl in season 1 of Powers. That was a series-regular gig (at least for that season), so presumably the pay was better than for a recurring role like Charlotte. Also it was a good character. Forbes was the best thing about Powers.

I didn't know she got offered to play another part. Good for her. Always liked her as an actress, be it Ensign Ro, Admiral Cain, or Marion Bowles.

 

[Christopher]

I didn't know she got offered to play another part. Good for her. Always liked her as an actress, be it Ensign Ro, Admiral Cain, or Marion Bowles.

Honestly, I was always kind of neutral about her in those and other roles, but she was amazingly good as Retro Girl. She was basically the closest thing that world had to Wonder Woman, and she did it very well.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Well, at seems that I wasn't the only one who wasn't able to see the newest episode right away (I was at the beach for a family reunion).

"You gave me life. I know you can take that away. You can't take away my humanity."

A rather raw episode for Cosima. I liked the reflection on her past turbulent relationship with Delphine and how it came into play with their actions in this episode. I fear for the worst for her now that she's locked away in a basement cage with Delphine heading off to Geneva to meet up with Felix (are we going to see any of that or will the show continue to remain relatively local?). Cosima's only ally now is Mud and she seems rather traumatized by Yanis vicious attack on that one guy (did we even know his name?) at the moment to do anything.

The long game of the genetic manipulations appears to be longevity of life. I don't know how well that fits with everything that's gone on with the show over the seasons, so I don't know how I feel about it. Did I correctly understand the episode's insinuations that P.T. Westmoorland might not actually be as old as he claims?

Is Ira glitching? Is there some kind of significance to a red rood on the show that I'm forgetting about?

 

[Dark Gilligan]

If the sestras' sole purpose for being was a by-product of an uppity old man's search for immortality, I'm going to write a sternly worded letter. Don't know where I'm sending it, but damn I'm gonna write it.

 

[tomalak301]

Well, at seems that I wasn't the only one who wasn't able to see the newest episode right away (I was at the beach for a family reunion).

I'm on a trip with limited internet access. I have to wait till at least Friday to see it but I do get episode 5 and 6 almost back to back.

 

[Christopher]

Well, at seems that I wasn't the only one who wasn't able to see the newest episode right away (I was at the beach for a family reunion).

And I was a guest at Shore Leave and didn't get home until last night. I just watched it today.

Cosima looked great in the tuxedo. She managed to be transgressive and stylish at the same time! Hooray!

And it was good to see Sarah and Kira patching things up and bonding again. That moment of the two of them and Siobhan all spooning at the end was really sweet.

The long game of the genetic manipulations appears to be longevity of life. I don't know how well that fits with everything that's gone on with the show over the seasons, so I don't know how I feel about it. Did I correctly understand the episode's insinuations that P.T. Westmoorland might not actually be as old as he claims?

That was the impression I got from Cosima's words, but I'm not yet clear on what she meant. But I expect that the research Siobhan and "the boys" are doing, trying to confirm the timeline of his life, might end up resolving the question.

Is Ira glitching? Is there some kind of significance to a red rood on the show that I'm forgetting about?

It's an exercise Susan used to test the Castors' memory. Earlier in the episode, we saw her asking Ira about some house they'd visited years ago and whether he remembered what color the roof was. Ira replied that he wasn't glitching and she was only testing his memory to change the subject.

If the sestras' sole purpose for being was a by-product of an uppity old man's search for immortality, I'm going to write a sternly worded letter. Don't know where I'm sending it, but damn I'm gonna write it.

I dunno, it seems fitting. The whole show is basically a feminist allegory about women fighting for control of their bodies and lives... and let's face it, ultimately it's elderly white men who are the ones trying hardest to take that control away from them, in service to the men's own self-interest. This episode even drove home those feminist themes more overtly than usual, with Cosima appealing to Susan's womanhood as a reason to stand together, talking to Delphine about how Westmoreland divided women, and defying the sartorial gender standards Westmoreland and the other old guy tried to impose on her at dinner.

Besides, the purpose of a human being's existence isn't about how it started, but about what we do with it once we have it. The sestras define their own purpose for being. That's the entire arc of the show, their refusal to surrender their right to do just that.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I'm on a trip with limited internet access. I have to wait till at least Friday to see it but I do get episode 5 and 6 almost back to back.

And I was a guest at Shore Leave and didn't get home until last night. I just watched it today.

I'm glad we all had good reasons not to watch on time.

Cosima looked great in the tuxedo. She managed to be transgressive and stylish at the same time! Hooray!

Yes! I forgot to mention this in my review. Tatiana as Cosima was seriously rocking that tuxedo. Cosima, with Delphine at her side, openly defying "The Messenger" (Géza Kovács' character, apparently we still don't have a name for him) was a great fist pump moment.

And it was good to see Sarah and Kira patching things up and bonding again. That moment of the two of them and Siobhan all spooning at the end was really sweet.

Not only was that what little side story very lovely, it was also rather refreshing to see Sarah just cooling her heels and spending time with Kira, instead of running around in five directions at once.

That was the impression I got from Cosima's words, but I'm not yet clear on what she meant. But I expect that the research Siobhan and "the boys" are doing, trying to confirm the timeline of his life, might end up resolving the question.

Good, I'm glad I was reading those two scenes correctly. I'm glad the apparent near immortality isn't part of the "science," just the attempt towards it. Still, we still have to deal with whatever Kira's special connection with the clones means.

It's an exercise Susan used to test the Castors' memory. Earlier in the episode, we saw her asking Ira about some house they'd visited years ago and whether he remembered what color the roof was. Ira replied that he wasn't glitching and she was only testing his memory to change the subject.

Oh, right. I don't know how I missed that earlier scene. I must've spaced out during that exchange. Thanks for that.

I dunno, it seems fitting. The whole show is basically a feminist allegory about women fighting for control of their bodies and lives... and let's face it, ultimately it's elderly white men who are the ones trying hardest to take that control away from them, in service to the men's own self-interest. This episode even drove home those feminist themes more overtly than usual, with Cosima appealing to Susan's womanhood as a reason to stand together, talking to Delphine about how Westmoreland divided women, and defying the sartorial gender standards Westmoreland and the other old guy tried to impose on her at dinner.

Besides, the purpose of a human being's existence isn't about how it started, but about what we do with it once we have it. The sestras define their own purpose for being. That's the entire arc of the show, their refusal to surrender their right to do just that.

Yeah, that's pretty much my take on the situation but more succinctly stated than how I would've put it. That particularly aspect of the show is one of the biggest reasons why I love the show so much.

 

[bigdaddy]

Ive been super busy trying to get everything done between the weather and meeting peeps so I haven't see it either. (Summer issues.)

I kind of like that after all the bad guys, and bigger bad guys and so on that it's pretty much just simply about some super old guy wanting to protect the human race and live forever.

And I think there is no chance he will be alive by the end of it.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Didn't Cosima hallucinate the "messenger" well before she ever went to the island, back when she was close to death?

What was that about?

 

[Christopher]

Didn't Cosima hallucinate the "messenger" well before she ever went to the island, back when she was close to death?

What was that about?

Wasn't that when Kira held her hand and appeared to "bring her back" from the brink of death? Much as I've resisted admitting it, it's now pretty much undeniable that Kira has some kind of oogy-boogy psychic power going on, so I guess she was having some kind of precognitive vision, or maybe tapping into Rachel's memories of the Messenger (I don't know if they'd met by then), and shared it in her mind-meld with Cosima.