Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

[KimMH]

^^^ it is interesting how brain injuries affect people's personalities. I tend to separate cognition from feeling/emotion; I suppose it is a particularly western world view which likes to parse these things out. of course it turns out that our thoughts and feelings are intertwined in ways we are only now beginning to learn about. talk about final frontiers!

 

[teya]

I'm wondering how many case studies your daughter has done on people with emotional dampners?

A better question would be how many have you? In fact do you know the first thing about brain chemistry? Her M/S study was with a professor that was working on the theory that the brain really is a sort of a computer and works like a computer network. One of the case studies she did look at was a male with a brain injury that left him unable to feel any emotion. She said he was a complete and utter airhead, and that his was one of the nicer case studies that she was exposed to.

Brit

I believe exodus' question was "how many studies has your daughter done on people with this 24th century technology?"

And the point is well taken. As I noted, 24th century medicine is far more advanced than what we have today--even miraculous by comparison.

And, before you ask, I have a degree in epidemiology, followed by 15 years in cancer research before switching to the administrative side of medicine where I've been working for major university medical centers for 15.

 

[Guy Gardener]

My friend. We are not talking about an emotiiopsychological coping wetware our brains enact under an umbrella for traffic control to force our madness-ness through a valve, but rather the emotional dampening qualities of her cortical implant.A steel tube a little larger than a Cuban cigar.

So, the question, the silly question, really was, how many people with cybernetic brains has your daughter studied.

What is in her head is one of the reasons she is not allowed to be a person or an adult and it's why some of us treat her as a child even though she was not written that way and Jeri didn't act that way but with rare exception.

Surgical removal of the cortical node, which was regulating and dampening her emotional gush, happened in the final episode so that she could know what love really was when the Indian told her she was beautiful and gently kissed her neck.

Would you have brain surgery, radically altering who you are just to love a little harder and brighter?

 

[AuntKate]

Her head is full of more than a little tube. Look at this picture from "Timeless." The doctor is holding in his left hand what Seven has in her skull--or at least some of it.

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x06/timeless_243.jpg

 

[teya]

Her head is full of more than a little tube. Look at this picture from "Timeless." The doctor is holding in his left hand what Seven has in her skull--or at least some of it.

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x06/timeless_243.jpg

That's her optical implant. They showed that in "The Gift" as well. See the eyeball?

Her optical implant had nothing to do with the emotional dampener. That was in the cortical node which was indeed a "little tube" shown to be in her forehead.

 

[kimc]

BTW, what is that fuzzy white thing in your avatar? I've been putting off asking but my curiosity is getting the better of me.

It's an English Angora rabbit. Hopefully my next pet.

A working pet. You comb the rabbit--which you have to do daily, since rabbits can't regurgitate furballs--and spin the combings into angora yarn.

It also looks like a giant tribble.

Well it's dang cute - and useful!

 

[Chrisisall]

Back to the topic, I just didn't feel right about it, like with Troi & Worf. Sometimes writers & producers like to shock & awe us with a bold move, sometimes they just misfire.
I still liked the show, even if SOME here feel it was all pure crap. YES, I liked seeing them get home. NO, I don't care that the Temporal Authorities didn't send Janeway to the Federation slam for her potentially paradox-causing trip.
I'm easy that way, I guess.

 

[exodus]

I'm wondering how many case studies your daughter has done on people with emotional dampners?

A better question would be how many have you?

None, emotional dampners are a thing of fiction.

Sorry you couldn't find the obvious humor in it.

 

[AuntKate]

I understand the "spirit" of what Brit is talking about--even though no one has been through a surgery like Seven's.

Remember how Data reacted when he had the emotion chip installed? Of course, Seven felt emotion before (unlike the android), but I can see where she could be overwhelmed by the depth of her feelings, good and bad, in a similar manner. Plus, the timing isn't all that good for her, since there would be a lot of angst as the ship returns to the AQ, something that she had worried about for years.

 

[teya]

I understand the "spirit" of what Brit is talking about--even though no one has been through a surgery like Seven's.

Remember how Data reacted when he had the emotion chip installed? Of course, Seven felt emotion before (unlike the android), but I can see where she could be overwhelmed by the depth of her feelings, good and bad, in a similar manner. Plus, the timing isn't all that good for her, since there would be a lot of angst as the ship returns to the AQ, something that she had worried about for years.

So it's going to be a challenge.

Has she never faced any challenges before?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Supposedly, the difference between the her with and without the corticode node would be the difference between Anika downing a box of tictacs or shooting a dime bag of horse... Because if the difference was really any less extreme than that why was the cortical node programmed to kill her a lot if she tried to emote above a certain pitch? Why bother if the glass ceiling was only deny y'all another 1/2 inch of breathing room?

Compare her emotional range clamped by the cortical node with a cars top speed, low speed, safe speed and the speed limit and what a cop catching you speeding is going to do to your license if she catches you with her radar gun?

 

[Brit]

If you will look closely, the emotion dampener is either a component of the cortical node possessed by Seven of Nine or it piggybacks. Now someone asked isn't Seven's cortical node actually Icheb's and by the time of "Endgame" it is. So if the emotion dampener that Seven possesses was Icheb's and if the dampener is a component then why don't all former drones have the dampener. It doesn't look like Picard has one, nor does Janeway, B'Elanna, or probably Tuvok. The doctor was surprised by the dampener, so the knowledge of such a Borg device was not in his programming. That tends to lead me to believe that Seven's dampener was unique to her, and therefore wasn't Icheb's.

Brit

 

[Guy Gardener]

Dormant. Meh?

SEVEN: Doctor. You've come to deliver unpleasant news.
EMH: Is it that obvious? I've completed my diagnostic. What you experienced was no malfunction. Your cortical node was designed to shut down your higher brain functions when you achieve a certain level of emotional stimulation.
SEVEN: Clarify.
EMH; It appears to be a fail-safe mechanism to deactivate drones who start to regain their emotions. Knowing the Borg, it makes perfect sense. Finding one's heart is the surest road to individuality.
SEVEN: I'm no longer linked to the hive mind.
EMH: The technology's built into your node. It simply remained dormant, until now.
SEVEN: Can you repair me?
EMH: Possibly. I've been thinking about a way to reconfigure the micro-circuitry. I won't lie to you, Seven, it would entail multiple surgeries and the recovery might be difficult, but I believe we could eventually succeed. I'll prepare the surgical bay. We can begin tomorrow morning.
SEVEN: No.
EMH: Without the procedure, you won't be able to continue your simulations.

meanwhile words like cortical array have also been used to decribe the cluster of junk in her head, and he seemed to fully aware of every sprocket and cog in her head before he began his exploratory surgery into her sexy grey brain.

EMH: The ocular node's connected to the sensory node. The sensory node's connected to the cortical node. The cortical node's connected to the reticular node. Don't look so gloomy. There's a silver lining to all this. Just think, we're finally going to see Earth.

Of course it was Ichebs node, and the Doctor might not not have counted for every problem, but the emotionosexualanimosity of a 16 year old boy is just about smacksure exactly the same as a woman in her early 30s, so it really shouldn't have been a problem and there shouldn't have been any compatibility issues at all.

(I watched the Graduate the other day again. "Rumour has It" is just awful however.)

 

[teya]

If you will look closely, the emotion dampener is either a component of the cortical node possessed by Seven of Nine or it piggybacks. Now someone asked isn't Seven's cortical node actually Icheb's and by the time of "Endgame" it is. So if the emotion dampener that Seven possesses was Icheb's and if the dampener is a component then why don't all former drones have the dampener. It doesn't look like Picard has one, nor does Janeway, B'Elanna, or probably Tuvok. The doctor was surprised by the dampener, so the knowledge of such a Borg device was not in his programming. That tends to lead me to believe that Seven's dampener was unique to her, and therefore wasn't Icheb's.

Brit

Why would the Borg install special technology in one drone?

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense at all.

 

[exodus]

If you will look closely, the emotion dampener is either a component of the cortical node possessed by Seven of Nine or it piggybacks. Now someone asked isn't Seven's cortical node actually Icheb's and by the time of "Endgame" it is. So if the emotion dampener that Seven possesses was Icheb's and if the dampener is a component then why don't all former drones have the dampener. It doesn't look like Picard has one, nor does Janeway, B'Elanna, or probably Tuvok. The doctor was surprised by the dampener, so the knowledge of such a Borg device was not in his programming. That tends to lead me to believe that Seven's dampener was unique to her, and therefore wasn't Icheb's.

Brit

Janeway, Tuvok, Icheb, Picard & B'e'Lanna were only drones for a few days. Seven was one for years and still has tons of Borg tech in her body, they don't. Seven's body is scarred up by it. Nanoprobes work like a virus adding tech as they go. The longer you're a drone, the more tech is added.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Why would the Borg install special technology in one drone?

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense at all.

An unwitting triple agent because of overlayed false personalities?

She is going to blow up or spew a 12 mile tall column of nanoprobes into the air as soon as she gets to earth.

Borg plague don't you know?

 

[exodus]

Why would the Borg install special technology in one drone?

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense at all.

An unwitting triple agent because of overlayed false personalities?

She is going to blow up or spew a 12 mile tall column of nanoprobes into the air as soon as she gets to earth.

Borg plague don't you know?

Now that would have been some great visual effects in "Endgame".

 

[teya]

If you will look closely, the emotion dampener is either a component of the cortical node possessed by Seven of Nine or it piggybacks. Now someone asked isn't Seven's cortical node actually Icheb's and by the time of "Endgame" it is. So if the emotion dampener that Seven possesses was Icheb's and if the dampener is a component then why don't all former drones have the dampener. It doesn't look like Picard has one, nor does Janeway, B'Elanna, or probably Tuvok. The doctor was surprised by the dampener, so the knowledge of such a Borg device was not in his programming. That tends to lead me to believe that Seven's dampener was unique to her, and therefore wasn't Icheb's.

Brit

Janeway, Tuvok, Icheb, Picard & B'e'Lanna were only drones for a few days. Seven was one for years and still has tons of Borg tech in her body, they don't. Seven's body is scarred up by it. Nanoprobes work like a virus adding tech as they go. The longer you're a drone, the more tech is added.

Plus Janeway, B'Elanna, Tuvok and Icheb were never fully assimilated.

 

[exodus]

If you will look closely, the emotion dampener is either a component of the cortical node possessed by Seven of Nine or it piggybacks. Now someone asked isn't Seven's cortical node actually Icheb's and by the time of "Endgame" it is. So if the emotion dampener that Seven possesses was Icheb's and if the dampener is a component then why don't all former drones have the dampener. It doesn't look like Picard has one, nor does Janeway, B'Elanna, or probably Tuvok. The doctor was surprised by the dampener, so the knowledge of such a Borg device was not in his programming. That tends to lead me to believe that Seven's dampener was unique to her, and therefore wasn't Icheb's.

Brit

Janeway, Tuvok, Icheb, Picard & B'e'Lanna were only drones for a few days. Seven was one for years and still has tons of Borg tech in her body, they don't. Seven's body is scarred up by it. Nanoprobes work like a virus adding tech as they go. The longer you're a drone, the more tech is added.

Plus Janeway, B'Elanna, Tuvok and Icheb were never fully assimilated.

That's kinda what I was getting at.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's also the reason the Doctor gave as to why Icheb didn't need one.