Opinions about Trip

[commodore64]

I think, though, that she would be best served by the following (in this order):
1. By being a cool character
2. By using her God-given assets in achieving #1

For example, I thought they did some things with the character that were just silly rather than sensual. If they wanted to show her in her best form, why not incorporate Vulcan stuff into I suppose "hotness." For example, what if T'Pol really did enter Pon Farr and like Spock, Enterprise had to take her back to Vulcan. They could've done something interesting with that. Or what about showing her engage in another mind meld before season 4? Or what about teaching the crew Vulcan martial arts (a la Marauders) in preparation for the Xindi? Or ....

Instead, the best they can do is Vulcan massage in pajamas or having her in Decon in shorts? Something doesn't seem right.

Well, there was...
1. Drug addiction.

Never wrapped up unfortunately.

2. Prooving one's self to those that don't trust you.
3. Loyalty to captain or loyalty to race.
4. Turning your back on tradition.

Agreed. I thought as far as motivations go she was a rich character. I said I didn't think her character was served by T&A and romance. It's unfortunate the actor was beautiful and an actress. Spock wouldn't have had to do some of the silly things they made her do.

 

[miriel68]

Couldn't possibly disagree more. IMO romance only enriches the character.

Well, it does or it does not, depends on how it is shown. I'm not sure it happened in this case. Trip had been "enriched" in the seasons 3 and 4 by being thrown in tow deeply emotional situations, the loss of his sister and his romance with T'Pol. The idea was certainly interesting but in both cases I was not entirely satisfied with how it had been carried on. Several times I felt the elements of both those plotlines as forced and artificially created by the writers rather then as coherent part of the character's development. On the whole, I think I prefer Trip from the 1 and 2 season...

 

[Anna Yolei]

There we have it. All boils down to the realtionship between Trip and T-Pol.

It is not if trip is a great engineeror a good one or anythng else. It is the relationship.

Thank you for pointing out the biggest problem he and T'Pol faced as characters.

Looking at other Trek romances, the characters had their own personalities and plots and development separate from who they were with or not with. I can go into a DS9 discussion about Odo or Kira and not have to bring up their relationship with each other as their defining achievement as characters. Same with Paris and Torres.

Instead, what could have been a great point for T'Pol to come into her own was used as an excuse for lazy writing because TIIC couldn't be assed to actually work out the kinks of a Vulcan/Human relationship, and dominated so much of what we saw in the last season that neither really grew much as people.

 

[kissthestar]

Back to the honky tonk accusation. Wasn't T'Pol the one who hung out in San Fran jazz bars?

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

I see that Trip is getting crowded out of his own thread. It was sad enough when it happened to Malcolm...

 

[SFRabid]

I see that Trip is getting crowded out of his own thread. It was sad enough when it happened to Malcolm...

Maybe you would like to change the thread title to "Opinions about Trip and T'Pol." As someone said, you cannot talk about one without the other. Maybe that T'Pol only post proves them right.

 

[SFRabid]

Back to the honky tonk accusation. Wasn't T'Pol the one who hung out in San Fran jazz bars?

I always thought Connor was more of a bar hopper than Trip. He is the one that talks about going across the border to Mexico to drown his sorrows, and thinking he was going to get fired before the show ever started after stealing a bottle of booze and getting drunk with at the casting party. Trip would be too busy chasing women and getting mugged.

 

[Mach5]

Maybe you would like to change the thread title to "Opinions about Trip and T'Pol." As someone said, you cannot talk about one without the other.

I hereby second the motion (though it may be a little unfair to the OP)

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Maybe you would like to change the thread title to "Opinions about Trip and T'Pol." As someone said, you cannot talk about one without the other. Maybe that T'Pol only post proves them right.

No. If you can't talk about Trip without talking about T'Pol, either a) you're not trying hard enough, or b) the character is a great deal more insubstantial than many people give him credit for.

We don't rename threads simply because they derail, or people lose interest in the topic. We have that handy-dandy "New Thread" button on the forum homepage for anyone who would care to begin a discussion about the relationship.

And we also have an existing [thread=67533]Trip and T'Pol appreciation thread[/thread], though it has lain fallow for a while. Keep in mind that this one is a pro-Trip/T'Pol thread, though T/T shippers have been known to engage in critical discussion in there from time to time. And there is no Archer/T'Pol bashing allowed in there.

 

[commodore64]

I want to talk about Trip without T'Pol. I'll try harder to ignore when she comes up.

SFRabid, I thought Trip wasn't a party animal, but a guy who liked to be with people. I can see him bar hopping to be social and ... to pick up chicks a la Two Days and Two Nights. And you know, I agree with Muriel, I liked that Trip best. He was fun, dynamic, interesting. I would even hasten to say that Trip was either my third of fourth favorite going into season 3.

 

[NXOner]

I agree with middleman about fans.

It does seem that tthose who are anti-Trip sare pro Archer/TPol and those who ae anti-A/TP are pro TnT.

Such is life.

No,no! I love Trip, love Archer and never liked T'Pol. Ergo I don't like T'n'T except that it gave Connor more shirt-free time but I think it also caused the loss of the Tucker/Reed dynamic, and the comedy banter that attracted me to Seasons 1 and 2.

 

[kissthestar]

I did not intend to crowd anyone out. I merely meant to nail down the facts.

 

[gblews]

^ I don't mind talking about it, but I'm not sure there's really anything to say and HR seems to be nudging us away. I don't really see Trip's motivations as his yearning for T'Pol for several reasons that maybe I didn't make clear:

I'm going to refrain from pointing out all the tangible on screen, clear indications of not only Trip's motivations in season 4 being tied to his feelings about T'Pol, but also the clear, on screen indications of what he yearned for, particularly in season 4.

* Yearning for a guy/gal is a sad motivation for a character, as if the character has other no value than "hey, he can fall in love"
* His "yearning" never resolved victorious, meaning it was either a poor choice or it wasn't his yearning

I think you missed my point. In your original post in this thread, you stated that one of the things that kept you from liking Trip more (paraphrasing) was the fact that the character didn't yearn for anything. I've pointed that Trip did yearn, and pointed out one of the main things he yearned for, whether it was clear or not that obtained what he yearned for. Perhaps what you meant originally wasn't that Trip didn't yearn for anything, but rather, you simply didn't like what he yearned for.

And that's fair, but considerably different from your original statement which makes it look like Trip was not as fully rounded a character, and he most certainly was -- eventually.

Yearning for something and achieving it is kind of what writers intend. The whole idea is to give the character an obtainable goal, but one that's really, really hard to reach. Besides, I think Trip has more value than just a boyfriend. Don't you?

Not all writers intend for their characters to obtain or achieve the thing for which they most yearn. Sometimes the characters' failure to obtain or achieve what they want is what makes the character interesting. Sometimes particularly so when the failure to achieve their goal is the character's own fault -- you know, flawed characters.

What might I have written that may have made you think that I thought Trip's value did not extend beyond his being a boyfriend? If your point with the question is to point out that being a boyfriend was primarily what Trip was in season 4, then I'll have to agree. That is the way the writers wrote it. But unlike you, I liked the way Trip's storyline was written for the most part-- particularly by the Judy and Gar, who wrote Trip's departure from ENT and his triumphant return.

I do think though that additional seasons (if we'd had them) would have shown a return by Trip to the other thing he most yearned for (at least according to Sim); perfectly performing engines. That was primarily what Scotty and Geordi yearned for also on their ships.

 

[commodore64]

I think you missed my point. In your original post in this thread, you stated that one of the things that kept you from liking Trip more (paraphrasing) was the fact that the character didn't yearn for anything. I've pointed that Trip did yearn, and pointed out one of the main things he yearned for, whether it was clear or not that obtained what he yearned for. Perhaps what you meant originally wasn't that Trip didn't yearn for anything, but rather, you simply didn't like what he yearned for.

I think you missed my point. My point was -- I like characters who from the very beginning yearn for something that makes them better than they were before they began their journey.

And that's fair, but considerably different from your original statement which makes it look like Trip was not as fully rounded a character, and he most certainly was -- eventually.

I disagree. I don't think pining for a woman makes him a well-rounded character. In fact, I think the relationship prevented him from being more well-rounded as I've stated in this thread a few times.

GB, I think it's safe to say: you love Trip and the pining he had for T'Pol and to you that makes him a fascinating character. I can't think of more ways I disagree with that statement, other than I liked Trip.

 

[JiNX-01]

Trip's yearning for a committed relationship with T'Pol is not as lame as you're portraying, commie.

This is an intelligent, kind and loyal man who hasn't been able to make a permanent connection with someone. Natalie of Pensacola (Silent Enemy); his remark to Liana about wishing women paid him as much attention as she was giving him (Oasis); he admitted to T'Pol that he'd had 3 relationships in his life and none of them worked out (Breaking the Ice); and mentioned to Princess Fishstick going parking with an (unnamed) girlfriend he also was obviously no longer involved with (Precious Cargo).

You found someone. Lucky you. Right now there are thousands of people out there who are asking computer programs to introduce them to the love of their lives.

Why would a fictional character's search for love be any less a challenge than trying to overcome *insert bad guy's name here*? Especially if the character fell in love with someone who would never say "I love you." Who would never hold his hand as they walked down the street. Who would never shed a tear when he died.

Yearning to explore, go down in history, become famous are nothing by comparison because your success in those areas is largely dependent on your determination, your pursuit of an education, your willingness to put yourself out there and take chances.

Looking to be loved? You're success is dependent on what someone else does.

 

[Penguin]

Jinx01, your last post was brilliant.

You summed up T-Pol perfectly. She would never be able to say "I love You', Hold his hand or even cry for him because of her vulcan control. Still she would want to do all of those things because she loves Trip and he would understand that and live with it because they belonged together and would be together the rest of their lives.

Again, great post.

 

[commodore64]

Trip's yearning for a committed relationship with T'Pol is not as lame as you're portraying, commie.

Seems like opinion.

Morals of stories, like Gone with the Wind, are typically: if you pine for someone hoping for them to make you happy, you won't ever be happy; look to thine self. Neither Rhett nor Scarlet in the end are happy with the one they pined after.

From my standpoint, Trip is a fairly successful, likable guy who falls in love with someone who gives him the run around and seems to make him miserable. (I suppose the making him miserable is my impression as well.) It's not fulfilling to watch, it's kinda painful to me. It's more painful because of the silly way (imo) they were pushed together.

Maybe it just boils down to opinion. I like Trip. I didn't like Trip/T'Pol. I have my reasons, which I've explained, to back it up why I think that. Some people like pie and cobbler, I don't. I like ice cream, cookies and cake. I'm sure some people don't like them.

To each his or her own.

Hold his hand

They held hands in Terra Prime, Trip initiated it (which makes sense).

Guys, I hate to say this, but you will *never* convince me Trip and T'Pol's relationship was anything but silly. My purpose behind this thread was to talk about Trip and why I like him and don't like his development. It'd be cool if we can stick to that. (I know some of the relationship stuff you believe are in contradiction to my comment about having motivations/goals, but it seems that dead horse has been kicked? You think it's a genuine motivation and heartwarming, I think it's not a motivation and well, I said my piece above. I don't want my thread to close and it sounds like there's a thread where you can expound on how fantastic you think T/T'P is until the cows come home.)

 

[lceb]

T'Pol did the closest to hugging Trip by putting her hand on his shoulder during a very moving conversation on The Forgotten. And she kissed him on the cheek in front of future husband. I don't think Trip's love was so one sided, but it was very difficult to fulfill. That is what made it beautiful in my eyes.
Then again, if we put the Trip/T'Pol affair aside during S4, and I'm repeating myself here, we see Trip working closely with Soval, against orders, leaving his captain and love in great danger, in order to stop a war. I think we see here a man who can think a step ahead, against his personal interest and becomes a leader. I only wish there was a season five and we could see more of that Trip, I liked his leading style.

P.S. Some thoughts about the character relationships in general, I hope I'm not completely OOT. I think it was a matter of symmetry in the show that Trip got the love element. Archer had another path, he's the man who saves Earth, he's so important for the federation, he's the leader and so he's a loner, if he were to face love problems too there would be no time for anyone else, it would just be the Archer story.

 

[Mach5]

Hold his hand

They held hands in Terra Prime, Trip initiated it (which makes sense).

IIRC, T'Pol was the initiator - she put her hand on his leg, and he took it with his good arm (the other one was injured).

BTW, when it comes to TnT romantic stuff, T'Pol was always the initiator, which is something that IMO thoroughly sucked.

T'Pol did the closest to hugging Trip by putting her hand on his shoulder during a very moving conversation on The Forgotten. And she kissed him on the cheek in front of future husband. I don't think Trip's love was so one sided, but it was very difficult to fulfill. That is what made it beautiful in my eyes.

It wasn't one sided at all (remember "Observer Effect?"), and in "Bound" (which was a complete suckfest) she practically begged him to return (that kiss in the corridor seemed like a pretty desperate measure to me).

 

[Middleman]

It wasn't one sided at all (remember "Observer Effect?"), and in "Bound" (which was a complete suckfest) she practically begged him to return (that kiss in the corridor seemed like a pretty desperate measure to me).

It seemed that the only time T'Pol really "stepped up to the plate" (a baseball term for those of you not in the US) was when she felt she was going to loose Trip. I know that this behavior was to highlight her internal conflict between her emotions for Trip and her Vulcan logic and tradition, but to me it appeared to be bad writing more than anything else.