Spoilers On Seven and sexuality

[Jayson1]

I live for the day LGBTQ+ characters are treated as standard characters.

It happens in some places. Like "American Horror Story." for one example. Everyone is always a asshole on that show usually and they don't care if the character is gay, straight or anything. Mac was gay on "It's Always Sunny" and he is still the same low class idiot the entire gang is.. I think that is the key. Once you can make a character unapologetically stupid or even lacking in moral values then you have real progress. That's because assholes are more fun usually than the good and noble character types. Even characters who are capable of being assholes.

Jason

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Still a need to add extra purpose to them by making them culturally important instead of just treating like your random standard characters.

Yeah, but moment in the sun and all ...

 

[AlanC9]

To be honest I don't think that matters as much as it use to when it comes to sending a message of inclusion. I remember when Culber was "killed" on "Discovery" the showrunner made it very clear online he would be back and their romantic storyline was not over. Which is fine only you basically just tossed away any mystery over him coming back. It's one of the issues you still have with LGBT characters. Still a need to add extra purpose to them by making them culturally important instead of just treating like your random standard characters.

Umm... that particular decision was about the Bury Your Gays trope, surely.. Which makes this an example of Preserve Your Gays; that's preferential treatment for gay characters, but of a highly-specific type.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I live for the day LGBTQ+ characters are treated as standard characters.

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My wife and i watched Visible Out, on Apple, a few days ago. 5 part documentary about LGBTQ representation on Television since Perry Mason.

RAYMOND BURR IS GAY????

(I can't wait to tell my mother, she is going to freak out.)

Visible Out did not mention Stumptown though. The new Cobie Smulders Private Detective show, where the lead character is bisexual, based on a gritty (modern) noir comic book by Greg Rucka. It's too new.

 

[gblews]

Same here. Being betrayed by a friend can be every bit as painful as being betrayed by a lover.

Yes, the impression I got was that Seven had at some point trusted Jay and that trust may have been betrayed even before what she did to Icheb.

The other thing is, I can’t see any reason for the writers needing to be vague or even subtle about an intimate relationship between the two characters. If Jay and Seven had had an affair, why not just make it clear and add another layer to the drama?.

 

[DaveyNY]

She's got a tongue, fingers and can manipulate complex tools - so she's all set.

A personal relaxer really isn't all that complicated to use.

 

[NCC-73515]

Or Odo wanted some quality time with Quark-head Kiragram

"That man loves me!" - Quark about Odo
Maybe this was the perfect combination - Kira's body and Odo's lovely face. So he could slap him upstairs while he does gentler things downstairs.

That only proves that the EMH had NO idea about how humans work. Dangerous thought

He obviously was hoping for a relationship involving himself and that her exploratory hook-ups happened 'only' with a simulated Chakotay...

 

[Arpy]

Anyone else get the vibe that Mr. Vup was gay? I don't mean his mannerisms, which I took to be more reptilian than queer, but he got a funny look on his face when Elnor materialized in the club.

 

[Jayson1]

Of course if they were gay it is kind of disturbing that every gay woman in Trek is basically evil except Jett Reno. The Intendent, .Mirror Georgiou and now this criminal lady and cold blooded murder Seven.


Jason

 

[rfmcdpei]

Of course if they were gay it is kind of disturbing that every gay woman in Trek is basically evil except Jett Reno. The Intendent, .Mirror Georgiou and now this criminal lady and cold blooded murder Seven.

1. Is what Seven did, killing a conscienceless butcher, evil? I would note that everyone else she shot was stunned.

2. Mirror Universe sexuality, I think, is much better understood as an expression of dominance than as it is of free attraction.

 

[Jayson1]

1. Is what Seven did, killing a conscienceless butcher, evil? I would note that everyone else she shot was stunned.

2. Mirror Universe sexuality, I think, is much better understood as an expression of dominance than as it is of free attraction.

I think they have avoid Starfleet weapons on purpose to get around the stun settings so guns can be lethal much like they are in the real world. I would say that killing anyone in cold blood counts as a evil act. Maybe not a mercy kill because I do believe in assisted suicide. I take it she has done tons of other not so great stuff as well while being a Fenis Ranger.

Jason

 

[rfmcdpei]

I think they have avoid Starfleet weapons on purpose to get around the stun settings so guns can be lethal much like they are in the real world.

No: Red phaser blasts are lethal, blue phaser blasts are stun only, and Bjayzl was the only person she shot to kill.

I would say that killing anyone in cold blood counts as a evil act.

Eh.

Maybe not a mercy kill because I do believe in assisted suicide.

In that the ravaged body of Icheb was unable to sustain his life, letting him live out the rest of his shortened life in agony to suit one's moral precepts would seem pretty evil to me. YMMV.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Seven was giving off some queer vibes, I figure she’s bi/pan if you count Chakotay. Although she wouldn’t be the first lesbian to date a man before realizing or accepting she was attracted to women and this is a Seven after years of growth and development we didn’t see. She’s far more in touch with her emotions now.

 

[Jayson1]

I think Seven is actually more closed off from her emotions than ever only in a difference way. She has given into complete apathy and like a soldier is only focused now on the mission. It is interesting that she seems to have joined the rangers before Icheb was killed so I wonder what it was that compelled her to give up Federation life which I assume she would have first experienced after Voyager made it home to go out become a rebel. I think it might have just been her Voyager family going down separate paths. Janeway gets promoted. She isn't allowed to join Starfleet so she goes out and finds a purpose.


Jason

 

[Muji]

I personally didn’t take it as some thinly veiled reveal of her sexuality. I’m not straight, and I’m normally quite sensitive to people being shoved into a box just for the the optics of representation. However, I think this was somebody she trusted. I mean, there could have been something there, but it isn’t necessary to read into.

Seven has been on a journey to rediscover her humanity. That’s as much about any other type of relationship as it is sexual, so it could have meant anything. Considering her relationship with Janeway, which I consider to be one of mentorship, I would imagine she was looking for something similar again. Her experience in the collective might well have lead her to desiring close, trusting relationships but finding those types of connections difficult because she isn’t ‘inside’ the mind of those she is attempting to trust.

As for The Doctor being a ‘creep’, I find the suggestion beyond ludicrous. He wasn’t trying to bang Seven when he offered to help her with her sexuality, he was clearly - given the context of his relationship with her in that and prior episodes - offering to council her from a medical and psychological standpoint. Even as a friend.

 

[rfmcdpei]

I think Seven is actually more closed off from her emotions than ever only in a difference way. She has given into complete apathy and like a soldier is only focused now on the mission. It is interesting that she seems to have joined the rangers before Icheb was killed so I wonder what it was that compelled her to give up Federation life which I assume she would have first experienced after Voyager made it home to go out become a rebel. I think it might have just been her Voyager family going down separate paths. Janeway gets promoted. She isn't allowed to join Starfleet so she goes out and finds a purpose.

I think it might also be self-defense. In the Alpha Quadrant, where xBs are regularly stripped of their technology, even murdered like Icheb, she cannot be safe if she relaxes. Her worst fears from Voyager have come to life.

(I've written about it at length at r/daystrominstitute. Link below.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromIn...w/the_stripping_of_borg_tech_from_xbs_is_the/

 

[Gov Kodos]

Seven was giving off some queer vibes, I figure she’s bi/pan if you count Chakotay. Although she wouldn’t be the first lesbian to date a man before realizing or accepting she was attracted to women and this is a Seven after years of growth and development we didn’t see. She’s far more in touch with her emotions now.

She was being fed a line by the Doctor and the Borg were just biological existentialists so far as sex went, an inefficient way to procreate. Folks will see what they want like in old 50s ads. Early J/7?

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[Jayson1]

I agree about the Doctor. He did develop feelings for her but that doesn't make someone a creep. He was kind of a father/mentor type who just happened to get a crush but seeing as how he is a hologram I am guessing his feelings on sexuality are pretty complex as well. I mean where do they come from. There is no reason for him to be straight or gay or anything so I am guessing his views come from a more intellectual POV since it's not like he has a body that is going to get stimulated anytime he see's someone's looks that might make a human get all hot and bothered.

Jason

 

[Orac Zen]

The other thing is, I can’t see any reason for the writers needing to be vague or even subtle about an intimate relationship between the two characters If Jay and Seven had had an affair, why not just make it clear and add another layer to the drama?.

Agreed. Another thought I had today was that if they're going to show Icheb's eye being ripped out, why would they shy away from Bjayzl making some cruel comment to Seven that makes it absolutely crystal clear they were lovers? This isn't network TV any more; they can say / do pretty much anything, and the fact they didn't actually spell it out when they quite easily could have and ramped up the drama (and made it even more clear what a sadistic bitch Bjayzl is) is what makes me think Seven and Bjayzl aren't exes.

Again, having said all that I couldn't care less if Seven turns out to be (canonically) lesbian or bi. Who fictional characters sleep with is not something I've ever been able to get worked up about (unless it's Janeway and Chuckles, a concept I find nauseating). But if they're going to do it, do it. Don't dance around it.

 

[Hythlodeus]

The other thing is, I can’t see any reason for the writers needing to be vague or even subtle about an intimate relationship between the two characters If Jay and Seven had had an affair, why not just make it clear and add another layer to the drama?.

I can see a reason.
Have you ever met that whiney subsection of fans on youtube, this homophobic garbage can, those despicable morons who would scream "DON'T SHOVE YOUR SEXUALITY IN OUR FACES!!!!" the minute something non-heteronormative is only acknowledged on screen? They are quite annoying