• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)


  • Total voters
    185
So that's four already (I'm counting Shawn Levy as your Reynolds note) plus Sam Raimi...so who is it that you're claiming had no 'real freedom' as director recently?

All the rest. I am not saying they did a bad job, will except a few of them. It's just that I think it's kind of known that the MCU tends to work more like old TV system were the producers and show-runners have more pull on what can and can't be done than the directors. The MCU is basically like one big tv series. That was one of it's strengths. But it can also be a weakness as well.
 
Is it known or is it assumed?

I'm not saying that there isn't a level of producing control (obviously there is, and should be. It'd be insanity to just let it be a free-for-all) but that doesn't mean there isn't directorial freedom.

If Gunn and Levy and Raimi and Waititi and Coogler had it...
 
I'm not saying that there isn't a level of producing control (obviously there is, and should be. It'd be insanity to just let it be a free-for-all) but that doesn't mean there isn't directorial freedom.
I've heard it alleged that the Guardians movies are unique in the franchise in that the previz department doesn't start their work until Gunn's script is complete, whereas with all the other productions, previz and scripts are worked on simultaneously, sometimes before a director is selected. Not 100% sure about that, or if there are any other exceptions, though.

Another Cretton movie is good news, sure, but I'd rather it was another Shang-Chi movie.
The wait for a Shang-Chi sequel is indeed maddening. From Iron Man to Endgame, there were only three years (2009, 2011, and 2014) in which Tony Stark wasn't on screen (and all of his appearances were major roles), and from The First Avenger to Endgame, there wasn't a single year in which Cap wasn't on screen (though, okay, Evans' cameo in The Dark World wasn't technically Cap, and he was only a cameo in 2017's Homecoming). From Thor to Endgame, there were only two years (2014 and 2016) Thor wasn't on screen. These consistent appearances from the major Avengers were a fundamental part of the franchise's forward momentum.

Meanwhile, Shang-Chi is the biggest single character the MCU has introduced since Endgame, and he was last seen three years ago, with no known sequel date, and not even a cameo since. WTF!
 
Another Cretton movie is good news, sure, but I'd rather it was another Shang-Chi movie.
Yeah, I'm rather surprised he keeps jumping from MCU project to another. First the potential Shang-Chi sequel to one of the Avengers films to now the next Spidey film. I'm curious if we'll ever know the full story about how all of those changes occurred.

Regardless, I loved Shang-Chi and I look forward to seeing what he may potentially do with Spider-Man.

The wait for a Shang-Chi sequel is indeed maddening. From Iron Man to Endgame, there were only three years (2009, 2011, and 2014) in which Tony Stark wasn't on screen (and all of his appearances were major roles), and from The First Avenger to Endgame, there wasn't a single year in which Cap wasn't on screen (though, okay, Evans' cameo in The Dark World wasn't technically Cap, and he was only a cameo in 2017's Homecoming). From Thor to Endgame, there were only two years (2014 and 2016) Thor wasn't on screen. These consistent appearances from the major Avengers were a fundamental part of the franchise's forward momentum.

Meanwhile, Shang-Chi is the biggest single character the MCU has introduced since Endgame, and he was last seen three years ago, with no known sequel date, and not even a cameo since. WTF!
While I agree that lack of Shang-Chi in other films and the lack of news on the sequel (aside from knowing it's still happening) is frustrating, I don't agree with the notion that he was ever intended to be on the same level as the Big Three. Some would argue that the lack of a proper Big Three in the Multiverse Saga demonstrates that it lacks focus and direction, but I'm actually glad they didn't try to recreate a new Big Three. They were lightning in a bottle (no pun intended) and I think it's better to expand beyond such a structure this time around.

That said, I'm willing to admit that perhaps the Multiverse Saga is perhaps spread out a bit too much, which is what lead to the lack of Shang-Chi (and others!) in other projects.
 
Last edited:
Meanwhile, Shang-Chi is the biggest single character the MCU has introduced since Endgame, and he was last seen three years ago, with no known sequel date, and not even a cameo since. WTF!

I would lean in the direction of the new Captain America being the next big character introduced since Endgame.
 
I am not sure we will have a big 3. Especially when you consider that soon X-Men will be a big part of the MCU and Fantastic 4. Spider-Man is your only character right now that is on the level of Stark and Steve Rogers. Except for Deadppol and Wolverine but their impact in the MCU might be over or will exist in some weird connected by not connected level.

My guess is the MCU will be lacking in this area until the the X-Men takes off. Which characters take off will be very dependent on who is cast and who connects with the audience. I sort of look at the MCU like the NBA post Magic,Bird and Jordan. You got one big name in Spider-Man who was the Shaq. Then it wouldn't be until Kobe would explode after Shaq left the Lakers and LeBron James joined the NBA that you had that big time, stars bigger than other stars.
 
So that's four already (I'm counting Shawn Levy as your Reynolds note) plus Sam Raimi...so who is it that you're claiming had no 'real freedom' as director recently?
I'm not sure about Raimi, what I read made it sound like he was taking it on as more of a hired gun role. He sounded very pleased to be doing what he was doing but as a knowing piece of the Marvel machine. At least that's the impression that I got.
 
Yes I think Raimi was treated as a hired hand. When in reality he is someone you stand back and let loose. We still got some of his style though in that movie which is why it's still a decent movie.
 
I'm not sure about Raimi, what I read made it sound like he was taking it on as more of a hired gun role. He sounded very pleased to be doing what he was doing but as a knowing piece of the Marvel machine. At least that's the impression that I got.
It may not have been some passion project for him (he was actually a late hire, as I recall), but surely there's no denying he directed that thing the way he wanted to?
 
It may not have been some passion project for him (he was actually a late hire, as I recall), but surely there's no denying he directed that thing the way he wanted to?

Yeah, I felt Multiverse of Madness was very much a Sam Raimi film in style. I've always felt people exaggerate when they insist MCU movies have a uniform style. I think they're cherrypicking the similarities and ignoring the clear differences. The goal of the MCU has always been to offer a diversity of genres and styles, the same way Marvel Comics always had a wide range of different genres, styles, authorial and artistic voices, etc. They want different directors and showrunners to bring their own distinctive styles to the work. For instance, Shang-Chi feels more like a wuxia movie to me than a Marvel superhero movie.
 
My reply to Gaith's:



The new Cap--Sam Wilson--was introduced at the end of the streaming series from 2021--two years after Endgame's release.

His position has changed but he's the same character. In fact, his new position only works so well because he was already introduced ten years ago.

He's not comparable to Shang Chi or any of the other new characters.
 
Wilson himself was introduced in TWS, and was essentially made the new CA in Endgame.

That was up in the air by the film's conclusion. The whole point of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was to see Wilson's trials of first resisting, then accepting how worthy he had been to carry on the role in costume, which only happened in the final episode of the series.

Captain America is a headline, leading Marvel character (solo or as leader of the Avengers), so of all solo characters who will populate the next phase, certainly one of the Marvel brand characters would be considered the biggest, post-Endgame (proper, full-on) introduction.
 
That was up in the air by the film's conclusion.
It didn't seem at all up in the air at the end of that film. It's just that TFATWS played its little game of pretending his Cap status was in jeopardy, but that was clearly a red herring. If nothing else, real-world political considerations would not have allowed him to be dumped from the Cap role.
 
It may not have been some passion project for him (he was actually a late hire, as I recall), but surely there's no denying he directed that thing the way he wanted to?
I didn't mean it negatively but it sounded more of a workaday project for him which he was perfectly fine with. I just wouldn't put him in the list of Gunn/Waititi/etc. and I don't feel he would either. My take anyway from the interviews I read/heard at the time and I don't mean it as any knock on him.
 
That was up in the air by the film's conclusion. The whole point of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was to see Wilson's trials of first resisting, then accepting how worthy he had been to carry on the role in costume, which only happened in the final episode of the series.

Captain America is a headline, leading Marvel character (solo or as leader of the Avengers), so of all solo characters who will populate the next phase, certainly one of the Marvel brand characters would be considered the biggest, post-Endgame (proper, full-on) introduction.

It would, if it were an introduction at all. But it's not. It's a transformation of an existing character, just like WandaVision (where Wanda also gets a completely new costume, newish abilities and a narratively meaningful new codename).

Shang Chi, Yelena, Kamala, etc, have had post-Endgame introductions. Sam Wilson has not, no more than Wanda or Jane Foster or Shuri.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top