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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)

  • Total voters
    185
Well I do think the first "Avengers" movie was successful in part due to the novelty of seeing a team up movie of super heroes from separate movies in one big movie. Centered around Iron Man's character who was of course already a big deal. While I do agree that the first Captain America movie is criminally underrated I do think he was already the second favorite Avenger In the first movie. They were bringing in a new Hulk and the first Thor movie was just Okay. Hawkeye was basically new. People did already love Black Widow even though she first showed up in "Iron Man 2" which was considered a bad movie.

I think the friendship between Iron Man and Captain America though is what really cemented them as the two main stars of the MCU. Then Winter Solider came out a blew people away and you could maybe even argue he was just as popular as Iron Man at that moment. If I had a list of the top 5 people/characters who I would give most credit for the MCU growing into what it did I think I would go with.

1 Downey Jr as Iron Man
2 Evans as Captain America
3 Kevin Feige
4 James Gunn
5 Joss Whedon.

If things had worked as planned I think the next big stars of the MCU would have been Spider-Man, Captain Marvel and Black Panther. That didn't work out because we sadly lost the main actor for Black Panther and Captain Marvel just didn't win people over.
 
Jayson1 said:
Well I do think the first "Avengers" movie was successful in part due to the novelty of seeing a team up movie of super heroes from separate movies in one big movie. Centered around Iron Man's character who was of course already a big deal. While I do agree that the first Captain America movie is criminally underrated I do think he was already the second favorite Avenger In the first movie. They were bringing in a new Hulk and the first Thor movie was just Okay. Hawkeye was basically new. People did already love Black Widow even though she first showed up in "Iron Man 2" which was considered a bad movie.

I think the friendship between Iron Man and Captain America though is what really cemented them as the two main stars of the MCU. Then Winter Solider came out a blew people away and you could maybe even argue he was just as popular as Iron Man at that moment. If I had a list of the top 5 people/characters who I would give most credit for the MCU growing into what it did I think I would go with.

1 Downey Jr as Iron Man
2 Evans as Captain America
3 Kevin Feige
4 James Gunn
5 Joss Whedon.

If things had worked as planned I think the next big stars of the MCU would have been Spider-Man, Captain Marvel and Black Panther. That didn't work out because we sadly lost the main actor for Black Panther and Captain Marvel just didn't win people over.
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I think the novelty factor of the Avengers had more influence at that time then any hypothetical popularity of Captain America (or Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye or Black Widow). Going into the Avengers, the popular image was that the best Avenger was Iron Man and second place didn't matter. The rest were secondary and only of interest because in order to have a team up of different movie heroes coming together you have to first have multiple different movie heroes.

The movie itself did start helping those other characters to build up their popularity more, but it still wasn't until The Winter Soldier that Captain America really blew up as a wildly popular character in his own right. He became a major a driver of the MCU from that point on. He really was not one before that.

Based on what we know so far, there's no definitive reason why Sam Wilson or Shang-Chi (or someone else) can't grow their popularity over time in a similar way, given the appropriate material. In fact, I think there is reason to believe Dr. Strange is already well on his way to achieving that (and he quite probably was also intended to be part of the original concept for the MCU's new 'trio', since Spider-man is still Sony dependent and therefore making him *the* face of the MCU is a huge risk).
 
Jayson1 said:
This is where I disagree. I think Downey Jr as Iron Man was great from the very start. The success of that movie and the success of the first Captain America movie is what made "Avengers" the big hit it was and was really what created the MCU. Deadpool joked about being Marvel Jesus but it really was Downey Jr and the first "Iron Man" movie that really was where it all began. Not only that but it pretty much put a end to the idea of the dark and gritty Nolan approach as being the big template for future comic book movies. A hard lesson the DCU learned first hand.
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You can feel RDJ was "great" from the start, but in reality, the film and character were not instant successes which captured the movie going audience. He required the development / boost of sequel and the heavy-lifting of partner characters / actors in the 1st Avengers to grow into the character you're thinking of from the broad view of a franchise.

Not only that but it pretty much put a end to the idea of the dark and gritty Nolan approach as being the big template for future comic book movies. A hard lesson the DCU learned first hand.
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No, it did not. At the time of the 1st Iron Man's release--2008--Nolan's The Dark Knight was released the same year, and was the superhero movie event of the year, still widely considered the greatest superhero movie ever made for good reason. Further, Nolan had another Batman film yet to complete, and within the MCU, the film often cited as its far and away best--Captain America: The Winter Soldier was the polar opposite of what vibe you're attributing to Iron Man, being a grim, violent superhero / espionage film, which was released well into the MCU's run in 2013. That film remains the model so many refer to when citing anything great from the MCU, and its no wonder the creatives behind the forthcoming Cap4 did not hold back in saying the film would be a "paranoid political thriller" in the vein of The Winter Soldier, a promise pleasing fans to no end.
 
TREK_GOD_1 said:
You can feel RDJ was "great" from the start, but in reality, the film and character were not instant successes which captured the movie going audience. He required the development / boost of sequel and the heavy-lifting of partner characters / actors in the 1st Avengers to grow into the character you're thinking of from the broad view of a franchise.



No, it did not. At the time of the 1st Iron Man's release--2008--Nolan's The Dark Knight was released the same year, and was the superhero movie event of the year, still widely considered the greatest superhero movie ever made for good reason. Further, Nolan had another Batman film yet to complete, and within the MCU, the film often cited as its far and away best--Captain America: The Winter Soldier was the polar opposite of what vibe you're attributing to Iron Man, being a grim, violent superhero / espionage film, which was released well into the MCU's run in 2013. That film remains the model so many refer to when citing anything great from the MCU, and its no wonder the creatives behind the forthcoming Cap4 did not hold back in saying the film would be a "paranoid political thriller" in the vein of The Winter Soldier, a promise pleasing fans to no end.
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I think it’s pretty clear from a read of the “reception” section on the film’s wiki page that it was both critically, commercially and popularly successful.
en.m.wikipedia.org

Iron Man (2008 film) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
I don't think people at that time had any problems with RDJ's casting as Tony Stark, I think people were more concerned with the choice of John Favreau as Director. Up until that point, he only had two movies under his belt 'Elf' (which was a commercial and critical success) and 'Zathura: A Space Adventure' (which was not); and I guarantee more people knew about 'Elf' than 'Zathura'.
The same could be said about 'Thor' and 'Captain America'.
With 'Thor' it was "Directed by that Shakespeare guy and staring Captain Kirk's dad" and with 'Captain America' it was "Directed by the guy who did 'The Rocketeer' and staring the guy who played Johnny Storm in those 'Fantasic Four' movies."
 
DarrenTR1970 said:
I don't think people at that time had any problems with RDJ's casting as Tony Stark, I think people were more concerned with the choice of John Favreau as Director. Up until that point, he only had two movies under his belt 'Elf' (which was a commercial and critical success) and 'Zathura: A Space Adventure' (which was not); and I guarantee more people knew about 'Elf' than 'Zathura'.
The same could be said about 'Thor' and 'Captain America'.
With 'Thor' it was "Directed by that Shakespeare guy and staring Captain Kirk's dad" and with 'Captain America' it was "Directed by the guy who did 'The Rocketeer' and staring the guy who played Johnny Storm in those 'Fantasic Four' movies."
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Yeah, Joe Johnston was not exactly a family name and had as many hits and misses in his career before Captain America.
 
Something else that should be said - For better or worse, Iron Man established what could be called the 'Marvel Method' for superhero movies and it was up to other Marvel directors to work within that framework. Some, like the Russo Brothers, James Gunn and Ryan Coogler were able to work within it and push the boundaries, expanding the scope of the MCU.

Others, like Alan Taylor and Chloe Zhao struggled with the formula and the pictures were compromised and suffered as a result.

DC tried to do the same thing by hiring Zack Snyder but go for a more "grounded" approach similar to Christopher Nolan's 'Batman', and yet two of their most successful films were 'Aquaman' and 'Wonder Woman' (you could possibly throw in 'Shazam!') which were more like Marvel movies in their look and tone.
 
DarrenTR1970 said:
I don't think people at that time had any problems with RDJ's casting as Tony Stark,
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Not the casting, but Jayson1's position is based on the way RDJ & the Iron Man would be perceived several films down the line, and makes the wild claim that the film--in his words, "put a end to the idea of the dark and gritty Nolan approach ", when The Dark Knight made its debut two months after Iron Man and flat out redefined the superhero movie in too many ways to list here, in addition to becoming a cultural phenomenon. Iron Man's approach--contrary to Jayson1's claim--had no bearing on The Dark Knight's global appeal or influence.

I think people were more concerned with the choice of John Favreau as Director. Up until that point, he only had two movies under his belt 'Elf' (which was a commercial and critical success) and 'Zathura: A Space Adventure' (which was not); and I guarantee more people knew about 'Elf' than 'Zathura'.
The same could be said about 'Thor' and 'Captain America'.
With 'Thor' it was "Directed by that Shakespeare guy and staring Captain Kirk's dad" and with 'Captain America' it was "Directed by the guy who did 'The Rocketeer' and staring the guy who played Johnny Storm in those 'Fantasic Four' movies."
Click to expand...

All true. There was no winning formula to the early MCU, with--as you point out--the attached directors did not exactly send fans cheering about the possibilities in the then-forthcoming adaptations.
 
DarrenTR1970 said:
I don't think people at that time had any problems with RDJ's casting as Tony Stark, I think people were more concerned with the choice of John Favreau as Director. Up until that point, he only had two movies under his belt 'Elf' (which was a commercial and critical success) and 'Zathura: A Space Adventure' (which was not); and I guarantee more people knew about 'Elf' than 'Zathura'.
The same could be said about 'Thor' and 'Captain America'.
With 'Thor' it was "Directed by that Shakespeare guy and staring Captain Kirk's dad" and with 'Captain America' it was "Directed by the guy who did 'The Rocketeer' and staring the guy who played Johnny Storm in those 'Fantasic Four' movies."
Click to expand...

You forgot about "Swingers." One of the top 20 to 30 movies of the 90's.
 
Jayson1 said:
I Don't mind him being Captain America. I even see him maybe filling the role of Nick Fury provided they don't go with Rhodes.
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So let's get this straight: you say you do not mind Wilson being Cap, but in the same breath were willing to shuffle him off to as some sort of Fury successor, when at no time in Wilson's released MCU history has he displayed an interest in or ability to take on that position. The opposite--Wilson as a costumed hero who trained with / fought alongside his best friend for years--made him (despite his self-doubt / expectation of a certain part of the public rejecting him outright) the prime candidate to become the next Cap, yet somehow, he is qualified to step into Fury's role, for reasons you do not specify.

It reads as if you want to leave as many doors open to push Wilson through, as long as it does not necessarily lead to his being the one and only Captain America in the MCU.
 
Beau DeMayo claims to know what the original version of Multiverse of Madness was about:

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Tuskin38 said:
Beau DeMayo claims to know what the original version of Multiverse of Madness was about:

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
Click to expand...
Man fired for sexual harassment talks shit. Guess he's really given up on having a career outside OnlyFans.
 
TREK_GOD_1 said:
So let's get this straight: you say you do not mind Wilson being Cap, but in the same breath were willing to shuffle him off to as some sort of Fury successor, when at no time in Wilson's released MCU history has he displayed an interest in or ability to take on that position. The opposite--Wilson as a costumed hero who trained with / fought alongside his best friend for years--made him (despite his self-doubt / expectation of a certain part of the public rejecting him outright) the prime candidate to become the next Cap, yet somehow, he is qualified to step into Fury's role, for reasons you do not specify.

It reads as if you want to leave as many doors open to push Wilson through, as long as it does not necessarily lead to his being the one and only Captain America in the MCU.
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He can still be Captain America and still fill the role of Nick Fury as in being team leader. When I think of those with the best leadership skills I think it comes down to Sam Wilson and Rhodes. Which kind of makes sense also in that I think his leadership skills might be his best strength. He doesn't have powers like many of the team or even really a Iron Man suit. He gets by on a jet pack and ingenuity.

If I was doing the next movie I would have it set up, maybe in several movies that Wilson is out their busy trying to assemble the new Avengers team. Right now I am not even sure if their is a Avengers team after "Endgame."
 
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