Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!)

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

I'm reading it now and I love it.

Only two things so far:

- The book says that it was a Vulcan crew who got turned inside-out by the Expanse. It was actually Klingons. (A Vulcan crew went insane and killed each other but didn't get "inverted" like that.)

- One of the characters mentions being posted to Daedalus-class ships. Are those even supposed to be in service yet? I always thought there wouldn't be any Daedaluses (Daedali?) built until after the Federation was formed.

But those are minor nitpicks, at best.

And I like that little in-joke about Major Hayes' first name. Shiny!

 

[Captain59]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Babaganoosh said:
- The book says that it was a Vulcan crew who got turned inside-out by the Expanse. It was actually Klingons. (A Vulcan crew went insane and killed each other but didn't get "inverted" like that.)

Yep, I caught that too, but gave them the benefit of the doubt. I think in The Expanse it says "Lieutenant Tucker" and then a few lines later correctly said "Commander Tucker," but we know what they meant.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Babaganoosh said:
- One of the characters mentions being posted to Daedalus-class ships. Are those even supposed to be in service yet? I always thought there wouldn't be any Daedaluses (Daedali?) built until after the Federation was formed.

The ''Enterprise'' and ''Columbia'' both had the ''NX'' registry, which I've always took to indicate an experimental vessel. Perhaps after a few ''NX'' vessels worked out the kinks, they re-fitted the rest of the fleet with newer, more streamlined warp 5 or 6 engines.

The Romulan War might have required that older vessels be re-fit and updated for the war effort. The ''Daedalus'' design might have particularly sturdy and used for a long time.

EDITED to add: Remember, the big deal about Enterprise wasn't the ship itself, but the engine.

 

[Reanok]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

I really enjoyed Last Full Measure and am Glad That Trip is alive. I really liked that this book built up the characters backstories and dealt with things such hard decisions and loss. Thank you Margaret,Andy and Micheal. This is one of the best Enterprise books yet. can't wait to read more of the Relaunch this book ending made want to read more of the story to be continued. I'm hooked and looking for any more news about the relaunch please.

 

[Ragua]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Can someone clarify a point for me? In "Anomaly" I seem to remember that the crewman who died was the first fatality in Enterprise's three year tour. But doesn't LFM come before "Anomaly?" Was this intentional, an error, or do I have my timeline all screwed up?

(I'd check myself, but I've lent my DVDs to a friend. I'm holding his LoTR EE hostage until I get them back.)

 

[Froggie]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Assuming I've successfully cleared the cobwebs from my memory...

The events in Daedalus and Daedalus's Children happen about 12 years before Ent's second season. Based on that, Daedalus class ships were in commission before the NX class was put in service. They may also still be around during the ENT era, for all I know. (I'm not a canon expert. )

Also, as for the prologue and epilogue tying into the story: yes, there is the Xindi/memorial connection and the impromptu meeting with the Kirks, but there is also the man who is accompanying "great-uncle Carl." He is a descendant of Guitierrez and Kemper's child - the child Trip apparently helped to raise.


I enjoyed this book, BTW. I plan on re-reading it soon to absorb more of the details.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Froggie said:The events in Daedalus and Daedalus's Children happen about 12 years before Ent's second season. Based on that, Daedalus class ships were in commission before the NX class was put in service.

Those two books have nothing to do whatsoever with the Daedalus class. The name is a coincidence.

As for NX: In ENT's time frame, NX is just a class name. Nothing more. It doesn't mean experimental anything. That doesn't happen until much later.

 

[Froggie]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

^ told ya I wasn't a canon expert!

I'd much rather enjoy the shows, books, etc. than worry about canon.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Ragua said:
Can someone clarify a point for me? In "Anomaly" I seem to remember that the crewman who died was the first fatality in Enterprise's three year tour. But doesn't LFM come before "Anomaly?" Was this intentional, an error, or do I have my timeline all screwed up?

You're right about the first death shown on screen, but the "first lit death" boat already sailed with "What Price Honor?" and crewman Alana Hart, which was set S2.

Did they specifically say in "Anomaly" that that was the first crew fatality, or did we as fans simply notice that this was the case?

 

[Ragua]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

^^^

I'm not sure. I have it in my head that there was an onscreen discussion between characters about Crewman Whatshisface being the first crew fatality.

 

[Stevil2001]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

It's strongly implied in "Anomaly" that the gender-bending Crewman Fuller is the NX-01's first casualty ("Considering all the hostile aliens we've met, I suppose it's fortunate we haven't lost more people. I doubt he'll be the last."), but the evidence I was able to find was not conclusive.

 

[Zane Gray]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

I have to say, as an Enterprise fan, I thought Last Full Measure was a pretty damn solid read. I agree with others here, that the characterizations in the book are excellent - the best yet in the Enterprise books. Very in keeping with the people we saw onscreen in Season Three, and the internal issues they must each have been dealing with. It was nice to see Travis playing a strong role.

And I like the notion that Trip's death in the finale was a cover - that he intentionally let history think him dead. I'm very curious as to why he did this, and who among the senior crew helped him to do it. Almost certainly Phlox has to have been involved. Perhaps T'Pol as well? She was, after all, going to see his family after the Federation Charter signing. Any chance we'll learn exactly what happened and why?

Thanks to Terry and the authors for a great read. I'm looking forward to this Enterprise relaunch... even if we have to wait until 2007 for more.

 

[Madea]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

I find all this Tucker talk silly. No matter how you cut it, the character is dead one way or the other. The guy will never be the same again and has changed and the fact that they had to add a framing sequence to satisy the whims of a couple of people shows me that the editor on this project had too much time on her hands.

I was going to get the book but now I won't because I've already lost respect for it.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Piper said:
I find all this Tucker talk silly. No matter how you cut it, the character is dead one way or the other. The guy will never be the same again and has changed and the fact that they had to add a framing sequence to satisy the whims of a couple of people shows me that the editor on this project had too much time on her hands.

I don't know... Normally I'd be inclined to agree that resurrecting a character who was killed onscreen would be a self-indulgent thing to do. But on reflection, a lot of things about Trip's (apparent) demise in TATV didn't make a lot of sense. As I remarked before, it didn't seem credible that he couldn't think of a non-suicidal way to rig the equipment to stop the bad guys, and as others have remarked, he shouldn't have needed to since the ship had plenty of security personnel. Also he seemed out of character, too frantic and panicky. It is hard to believe that he would've actually died in that manner. Revealing that what we saw was a hoax created for the record books does a lot to explain its discrepancies and logic problems. So it's not so much indulging in wish-fulfillment to bring back a beloved character as coming up with an explanation for something onscreen that just didn't make sense. And that's something the prose fiction has done quite a few times before.

I was going to get the book but now I won't because I've already lost respect for it.

In case you didn't know, the stuff involving Trip's resurrection is only in the prologue and epilogue of the book. The main story is along completely different lines, and centers mainly on Travis, Archer, Malcolm and the MACOs. Trip is hardly even in it. Who knows, you might enjoy that story a great deal, even if you aren't happy about the frame it's in.

 

[Dayton Ward]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Piper said:
I find all this Tucker talk silly. No matter how you cut it, the character is dead one way or the other. The guy will never be the same again and has changed and the fact that they had to add a framing sequence to satisy the whims of a couple of people shows me that the editor on this project had too much time on her hands.

I was going to get the book but now I won't because I've already lost respect for it.

That's okay, because the legions of Tuckerites who swore never to buy a Trek novel Ever Again So Long As They All Shall Live(tm) if Tucker stayed dead are at this instant lining up to buy multiple copies of this and any other Trek novel.

I mean, that's what I gathered from all that hooplah late last year.

So, it all balances out.

And this is why I love fandom.

 

[KRAD]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Thanks to Terry and the authors for a great read.

Erm -- Terry who?

 

[Madea]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Dayton Ward said:

Piper said:
I find all this Tucker talk silly. No matter how you cut it, the character is dead one way or the other. The guy will never be the same again and has changed and the fact that they had to add a framing sequence to satisy the whims of a couple of people shows me that the editor on this project had too much time on her hands.

I was going to get the book but now I won't because I've already lost respect for it.

That's okay, because the legions of Tuckerites who swore never to buy a Trek novel Ever Again So Long As They All Shall Live(tm) if Tucker stayed dead are at this instant lining up to buy multiple copies of this and any other Trek novel.

I mean, that's what I gathered from all that hooplah late last year.

So, it all balances out.

And this is why I love fandom.

Are there really Legions of Tuckerites out there? I mean really, the show itself was good in my opinion and I watched it, but are there really that many Tuckerites out there or just or just a small few, one of wich happens to be the editor in charge. Looks to me like she used her position to satisy her own whims and that of a couple of others.

 

[Sci]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Piper said:
I find all this Tucker talk silly.

I agree that this Tucker talk is silly. I also, however, agree that his canonical death was handled poorly, and that revealing it to be a hoax makes more sense than the way his death was handled in addition to opening up new and interesting story opportunities.

No matter how you cut it, the character is dead one way or the other.

Well, sure. They all are, eventually, because the longest-lived of them (T'Pol) could only credibly have survived into the 2330s.

The guy will never be the same again and has changed and the fact that they had to add a framing sequence to satisy the whims of a couple of people shows me that the editor on this project had too much time on her hands.

I think you can make your critiqe without resorting to an attack on Margaret Clark's professionalism by implying she has too much time on her hands. Further, Ms. Clark has outlined her reasons for revealing that Trip survived; satisfying the whims of some overly-vocal Tuckerites on the 'Net was not amongst them.

I was going to get the book but now I won't because I've already lost respect for it.

As others have pointed out, the framing sequence is wholly separate from the main body of the novel. Why judge the entire work based upon one aspect?

 

[Dayton Ward]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Piper said:
Looks to me like she used her position to satisy her own whims and that of a couple of others.

Feel free to let us know when you acquire an informed opinion.

 

[Madea]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Sci said:

Piper said:
I find all this Tucker talk silly.

I agree that this Tucker talk is silly. I also, however, agree that his canonical death was handled poorly, and that revealing it to be a hoax makes more sense than the way his death was handled in addition to opening up new and interesting story opportunities.

No matter how you cut it, the character is dead one way or the other.

Well, sure. They all are, eventually, because the longest-lived of them (T'Pol) could only credibly have survived into the 2330s.

The guy will never be the same again and has changed and the fact that they had to add a framing sequence to satisy the whims of a couple of people shows me that the editor on this project had too much time on her hands.

I think you can make your critiqe without resorting to an attack on Margaret Clark's professionalism by implying she has too much time on her hands. Further, Ms. Clark has outlined her reasons for revealing that Trip survived; satisfying the whims of some overly-vocal Tuckerites on the 'Net was not amongst them.

I was going to get the book but now I won't because I've already lost respect for it.

As others have pointed out, the framing sequence is wholly separate from the main body of the novel. Why judge the entire work based upon one aspect?

Look, what you call an attack I call an observation and it had nothing to do with her character because unless I actually meet her I can't judge it anyway. But all this intense attention on a character that only a percentage of fandom even cares about is again silly.

It's not right to assume that just because you're an Enterprise fan you have to give a damn about Tucker. We want good books to read when we buy them, but to know that the only concern from the editor is her what she liked and didn't like is stupid. Why not just have written LFM without the framing sequence?

If this was such a good idea I would love to hear from the other authors and editors that frequent this board and know how they think.