Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!)

[tothebridge]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Baerbel Haddrell said:
I see nothing wrong with it finding ways around bad decisions when there is a good, plausible, exciting story behind it. I am sure, Enterprise Relaunch will provide that.

I don't see anything wrong with the decision either. In at least one interview, I believe Rick Berman was quoted as saying there is no way they would have killed Trip permanently if the series had gone on, so I don't have a problem with the character continuing on post-TATV.

I also don't see how this decision is pandering to one specific group. I assume part of the rationale for having Trip not dead was because it was felt the scenario (1) would provide good story-telling opportunities and (2) help sell ENT books.

I hope to finish the book today and will post comments on the actual content afterwards.

ETA: Margaret, I posted before seeing your response. Thanks for the comments.

 

[23skidoo]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Someone added a reference to this plot to a couple of Wikipedia articles. As an administrator I actually deleted the edits at first, believing them to be bogus. I came to this thread to see if it was true. I'll admit I'm quite stunned. I'll still read the book, but while Margaret's reasoning (albeit yet another TATV kick) makes some sense, I'm actually finding myself (perhaps for the very first time), agreeing with The Realist's POV on this.

If there was some sort of "Cartmel Plan" behind the death of Trip in TATV (that's a very obscure Doctor Who reference but I'm sure at least some of the writers here will know what I mean) that was left undeveloped due to the cancellation, OK I could see the books picking up the thread and running with it (much as the Doctor Who novels that followed its cancellation continued developing the Cartmel Plan) ... but I can't help but see this in the same light as I might see David Marcus being revealed to have somehow faked his death in STIII. I'd have preferred to see the Relaunch books do some sort of foreshadowing -- maybe Trip found out through Daniels that he died or something. Knee-jerk reaction is this has soured me on the Relaunch -- and it hasn't even happened. You may all want Rick Berman and Brannon Braga to die horrible deaths, but the fact is they created this branch of the Trek franchise, and to undo their decisions regarding the finale IMO shows an unnecessary lack of respect. Did the DS9 Relaunch undo what happened in the IMO poor finale "What You Leave Behind"? No, they didn't.

First Starfleet Academy, now "Trip ain't dead." This has been a rather disappointing week for this Trek fan.

The sad part is this appears to have overshadowed the rest of the book, which is probably an excellent tale.

Alex

 

[Ragua]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

MargaretClark said:

Once more dear friends….

Right.

I read the script for “These Are The Voyages…” and was… horrified… naw I HATED it. This was how they were ending the show? REALLY? In my opinion, this was not a meaningful death. (See: Spock, ST:II) It was almost as if someone had said, “Well, someone has to die, let’s kill a popular character. Let’s kill Trip.”

I waited until I saw the show, even more… annoyed (NOT the verb I would like to use) seeing it. But I thought about it, and I thought I knew what could/would work and what I’d like to do. I went with my heart. (I didn’t go near the boards.)

Now with the change of the publishing program, LFM got moved, big time. I suggested the framing sequence, to the M&M boys, to acknowledge the passage of time. They gave me one. Then, I started reading the interviews that Mr. Berman and Mr. Braga gave on the show finale… I called M. “Nice story but I wonder… let’s change the framing.” Huh? “Let’s make it (short version) Trip, and while we are at it, let’s have him meet a very serious George Samuel Kirk, and his young kid brother, Jim.”

I don’t take contradicting established continuity lightly. I respect the show(s) and the fans (being one myself). But TATV was many things, one thing it was NOT was, “A love letter to the fans.”

Cry Harry, England and Saint George….

Margaret

Rarely do I do this. But this is from the heart, not the head.

Thanks for this, Margaret. It means a lot and is much appreciated.

:thumbsup:

 

[KRAD]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

I'm going to say this again. Nothing in LFM is inconsistent with what's onscreen in "These Are the Voyages..." But I'm willing to bet that most folks aren't remembering how the events actually played out in "TATV."

*enigmatic grin*

 

[KRAD]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Maybe not in clever writearound terms, but apparently it does contradict the episode's clear intentions, which were that Trip is dead, dead, dead. If so, it seems like the kind of shameless pandering to fandom's more vocal crybabies that would have been better avoided.

Unless you've actually read Last Full Measure, then you don't know what you're talking about. Trust me.

 

[Bobatiel]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

MargaretClark said:
Rarely do I do this. But this is from the heart, not the head.

And many thanks for it!

Now that's a valentine for the fans.

Your post makes me feel very good about your perceptions of Star Trek and your position as editor. It's so refreshing to read something from somoeone official that is right from the heart. I fully understand why it's rare, but rest assured it is very much appreciated.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

23skidoo said:
Someone added a reference to this plot to a couple of Wikipedia articles. As an administrator I actually deleted the edits at first, believing them to be bogus.

I was the one who added those references in the first place. And believe me, I checked here first. Bogus? Thanks a lot...

Oh well, apparently you put them back...I suppose I should be grateful for that.

 

[DEWLine]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Margaret:

To you, Andy and Michael...thank you.

As good as I knew the book was going to be in any case given the authors, this sealed the deal.

Live long, prosper and die well, the lot of you!

 

[JD]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

I only watched the first 1 1/2 and 4th season's of Ent so I wasn't going to read LFM, but I still want to know what it says about Trip. So I was wondering if someone could tell me what exactly the book says about him surviving TATV?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

^ Apparently nothing at all. Trip's just...there. Anything beyond that, it's left for future novels to reveal.

 

[KRAD]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

^ It says a little more than that, actually, which you'd know if you've read the book.

 

[JD]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

OOOOOO, very interesting. (That is not sarcasm, I really do find it interesting.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

KRAD said:
^ It says a little more than that, actually, which you'd know if you've read the book.

If anybody around here actually had it in stock, I would!

 

[KRAD]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

^ Pish tosh. Letting a little thing like that get in the way.




(Yes, I'm funning you. )

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

^ Grr..

Well, you're from NYC, so I'll let it go.

 

[chrisis1033]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

KRAD said:
^ It says a little more than that, actually, which you'd know if you've read the book.

I was going to comment, but I think I better read the book first!......... :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Trippy]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Well I'll comment just to say that I can't wait! But I like all the ENT books... :thumbsup:

 

[pookha]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

as for what berman intended would do keep this quote in mind from july of 2005.

As for killing off Commander Tucker, "I doubt we would have done it if we were coming back [for Season 5] ....as far as Brannon and myself were concerned, the writing was on the wall. We would have been totally shocked if the show had been picked up [for Season 5], and if it had we probably would have made changes to the final episode."

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Others have said it already but I feel the urge to do it too: Thank you so much! When I read the review here, it really made my day. My first reaction was clapping my hands and shouting "yes"!

No question about it: The book will be at the top of my to-read pile as soon as I get it - and getting it is high priority for me now.

 

[Elemental]

Smiley said:
Let's get the obvious out of the way first. Trip is "NOT. DEAD." How he survived and why he needed to have history consider him dead are still open questions. I'm sure Margaret and the authors will come up with brilliant answers sometime during the Relaunch. I'm glad to see that Trip is alive, but I'm also worried about the way his life will change after his supposed death.

I haven't read the book but couldn't resist taking a look at this thread. Although I really enjoy These Are the Voyages and thought Trip had a very powerful and momentous death, I just wanted to comment that even without knowing the details of the situation you are creating around Trip, the idea that "history needed to think him dead" is utterly brilliant and fits in perfectly to the historical style in which TATV was presented in. Kudos to whoever thunk that one up and best of luck in implimenting it.