Just what is so bad about 'These Are The Voyages'..?

[Roald]

The hatred towards this episode is so intense, that I wonder sometimes if we're even talking about the same episode. As a longtime Star Trek fan, I see TATV more as a conclusion to the 1987-2005 era of televised ST, and I think it was intended that way. I actually think it's a pretty good episode..!

So where is the bitter hatred coming from? Perhaps obviously: it's not a good final episode. No, maybe it's not. Then again, ENT was cancelled before her time, and TATV reflects that. There was no build up towards a satisfying conclusion like there was on TNG or DS9. It's like 'Turnabout Intruder'; a regular episode that happened to be the final outing for the series.

 

[Admiral Shran]

This explains it far better than I ever could....

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3777372&postcount=929

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

^^ Ah, fond remembrance. (Of TheGodBen's colorful reviews.)

If we pinned that post to the top of the forum, I don't think there'd be any further need for the monthly "TATV Sux!!!1!" threads.

 

[Hoshi's sis]

I don't like how our characters were guest stars on their own show. Their character development was de-evolved two/three years. They didn't act or behave like they had in season 4. You could tell the script was written two years before. It was a stupid story and an insult to the loyal fans who stuck with the show throughout its four years on air.

 

[xortex]

This explains it far better than I ever could....

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3777372&postcount=929

Wow, I'm glad I didn't see it. It's far, far worse than I thought. I might have puked.

 

[Mach5]

^^ Ah, fond remembrance. (Of TheGodBen's colorful reviews.)

If we pinned that post to the top of the forum, I don't think there'd be any further need for the monthly "TATV Sux!!!1!" threads.

Ha! I've been saying you should do that since, like, 4ever!

 

[Roald]

^^ Ah, fond remembrance. (Of TheGodBen's colorful reviews.)

If we pinned that post to the top of the forum, I don't think there'd be any further need for the monthly "TATV Sux!!!1!" threads.

Actually, this is NOT intended as a TATV Sux type of thread. I honestly think the episode is good (or at the very least not as bad as some claim it is)..!

 

[Michael]

I honestly think the episode is good (or at the very least not as bad as some claim it is)..!

Of course it isn't as bad as most people say it is. But really, what is? Mind you, I loathe These Are The Voyages ... like the next guy, but I have no problem admitting that I like some particular aspects of it. Personally, I think seeing Riker again was kinda cool, for example. (It's beyond me why they thought it was a good idea to have him in the finale, though.) Revisiting Rigel was a fine idea, too. Featuring Shran and his daughter was nice; as was the CGI Enterprise-D and the montage at the end.

However, These Are The Voyages ... doesn't work as a finale to Enterprise at all, as evidenced by the fact that it's hardly about the characters of that show. Furthermore, it even features the rather preposterous death of the most popular character of that show. So in that light it's understandable that most people who love Enterprise hate it.

 

[Mach5]

It's like watching your favorite team lose in a game where they don't have to bother playing the bottom of the ninth inning, because, it's just a complete rout, just an indignity. It should have been a two hour triumph at least!
-- Michael A. Martin

/thread

 

[SFRabid]

To me it is more like making a comeback to pull within one run in the 8th, the top of the lineup is due in the 9th, and they suddenly pull them and replace them with overweight stars from the past and sacrifice the game so the old timers can get some love. Then they can not understand why the love did not come.

In reality, I think if you had never seen the show before the episode would be better. Maybe people who have never seen Enterprise should watch TATV first and then start with season one. But, by design Enterprise is a character driven show and the attachment to the characters is how we get through some of the bad writing. So to kill one of the most loved characters at the end and turn the others into a supporting cast is harder to take.

 

[Darth Duck]

So, if everyone hates this episode, how did it end up a fans choice on the "Captain's Log" DVD collection? I mean, I don't hate the episode, I kinda enjoy it, but it still puzzles me how it made that DVD.

 

[Mach5]

So, if everyone hates this episode, how did it end up a fans choice on the "Captain's Log" DVD collection? I mean, I don't hate the episode, I kinda enjoy it, but it still puzzles me how it made that DVD.

That has been discussed in detail already. I argue that there was never any voting among fans. They just slapped that episode on that disc without asking anyone.

People who like TATV usually dislike Enterprise. There are exceptions, though, but not many (from my experience).

Examples:

I have always loved the ending to Enterprise. Just because it was the END...

Except for "These Are the Voyages". You're all the less likely to find something you like there if you have actually gotten attached to the crew of ENT.

haha...yep. And that's exactly why I liked it.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Actually, this is NOT intended as a TATV Sux type of thread. I honestly think the episode is good (or at the very least not as bad as some claim it is)..!

And there are folks like you who enjoyed it, which is great. But threads like these typically bring out opposing viewpoints as well... and that review is a good example.

 

[Darth Duck]

So, if everyone hates this episode, how did it end up a fans choice on the "Captain's Log" DVD collection? I mean, I don't hate the episode, I kinda enjoy it, but it still puzzles me how it made that DVD.

That has been discussed in detail already. I argue that there was never any voting among fans. They just slapped that episode on that disc without asking anyone.

I remember voting in the online poll before it came out. I remember voting for 5 of the choices that ended up on the set.

People who like TATV usually dislike Enterprise. There are exceptions, though, but not many (from my experience).

Well then, I'm an exception, pleased to meet you.

 

[Darth Duck]

I remember voting in the online poll before it came out. I remember voting for 5 of the choices that ended up on the set.

Proof?

I voted in a poll at StarTrek.com four or five years ago. I'm sure it's gone now, but I voted in it. I was disappointed the set didn't include other officers in command, since that was a poll option. I wanted Duet to make the cut.

pleased to meet you.

I guess that makes one of us...

With that kinda welcome it makes none of us.

 

[Middleman]

People who like TATV usually dislike Enterprise. There are exceptions, though, but not many (from my experience).

I second this opinion. If there really was a vote of "fans", the ballot box must have been stuffed by those "Trek fans" that consistently bashed Enterprise during it's four years. Being as cynical as I am, my guess is that their only purpose for doing it was to annoy "real" Enterprise fans; just as they consistently did on various Trek boards over the years. Based on my experience only an infinitesimal portion of "real" Enterprise fans would have voted for it; and there are polls all over the Trek community that prove it. You have posted quotes here from Andy Mangels and Michael Martin where they say they haven't met anyone in the business who liked TATV. I'll assume they meant fans as well. Proof enough for me that this episode was despised by the vast majority of the "real" fans.

Question to all: If this episode was really liked, even by a noticeable number of Enterprise fans, then why did CBS/Paramount go out of its way and dedicate two books to repairing the damage TATV caused?

 

[Joeman]

I didn't hate it. I gave it a 5/10 score ("OK"), but I do think it was definitely ill conceived as a series finale.

I remember seeing that "Captains Log" collection in a store some time ago, but that was before I ever watched Enterprise, so I didn't think too much about that particular episode being included (since I assumed all of the show sucked). Now that I have an appreciation for the show, I find it inconceivable that fans would vote for that episode. IMO, at least 95% of the rest of the series is superior.

 

[Mach5]

Question to all: If this episode was really liked, even by a noticeable number of Enterprise fans, then why did CBS/Paramount go out of it's way and dedicate two books to repairing the damage TATV caused?

Like Mangels said - "The Paramount people were behind us on this [fixing TATV] 400%!"

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Well then, I'm an exception, pleased to meet you.

Well, I'm pleased to meet you. I love your avatar! Is it a general publicity photo, or from a particular film?

 

[Darth Duck]

Well then, I'm an exception, pleased to meet you.

Well, I'm pleased to meet you. I love your avatar! Is it a general publicity photo, or from a particular film?

It's Cushing as Van Helsing from one of the Hammer Dracula films, I don't know much more than that.