Just Started Avatar The Last Airbender

[Mr Light]

"Black Sun 2: The Eclipse": another four star episode! Great big war sequences. I'm really surprised they dealt Aang another crushing defeat; he's basically 1 for 3 in the big battles now. I expected either Azula or Ozai to be defeated/killed in this episode. I figured that Zuko or Azula would murder Ozai and become the new Fire Lord. Or, that the heroes would defeat/capture Azula leaving only Ozai as the baddie. The only thing I did guess right was that Iroh would escape in the eclipse with his physical strength alone. Ah, Zuko, Zuko. You confront your daddy alone when he's powerless, say you're going to destroy him, then don't kill him and walk away. Why does Zuko feel only Aang can be the one to defeat him? I would have been happy if they just killed Ozai here and left Azula as the main villain, since Ozai hasn't had much screen time or character development. He's a little boring compared to the other characters. They have no personal connection to him, they've never even met him. So lemme get this straight, all the water benders in Aang's little army are only Southern, right? Where is the Northern Water Tribe? They're an actual military power on their side. Still can't believe their entire army failed and was captured. Wow.

 

[Christopher]

I figured that Zuko or Azula would murder Ozai and become the new Fire Lord. Or, that the heroes would defeat/capture Azula leaving only Ozai as the baddie.

I was expecting the reverse, that Ozai would be taken down and Azula would become Fire Lord. After all, she's really the primary villain of the series.

Ah, Zuko, Zuko. You confront your daddy alone when he's powerless, say you're going to destroy him, then don't kill him and walk away. Why does Zuko feel only Aang can be the one to defeat him?

It helps to understand Eastern concepts of balance and destiny. Aang's path, his destiny, is to stand against the Fire Lord and defeat him. After all, Aang is the Avatar, the one whose purpose is to restore balance to the world. Zuko's path is to balance Aang. Pay attention toward the end of the series for Iroh's explanation of why it isn't his place to depose Ozai either. The same logic applies to Zuko.

Where is the Northern Water Tribe? They're an actual military power on their side. Still can't believe their entire army failed and was captured. Wow.

The Northern Water Tribe was small compared to the power of Ba Sing Se and the Earth Kingdom, but the Fire Nation totally conquered the Earth Kingdom.

 

[Graywand2]

Not totally. There had to be some remnant areas that hadn't been taken, and bases, otherwise where did the troops they did have come from?

 

[exodus]

Not totally. There had to be some remnant areas that hadn't been taken, and bases, otherwise where did the troops they did have come from?

Exactly.
The revelation of the Lotus Gambit was proof of that.

 

[SG-17]

Indeed, they only took territories necessary to have direct access to Omashu and Ba Sing Se.

 

[Christopher]

Doesn't matter. They controlled both the major power centers of the Earth Kingdom, including the capital, which constitutes a successful conquest of the Kingdom as a whole. That's pretty much how conquest is assumed to work -- if you control the capital, you rule the nation. Naturally some resistance will continue in territories you don't directly control, but it will be considered a rebellion within a successfully conquered nation.

 

[SG-17]

Well in Avatar it appears that Ba Sing Se and Omashu are the only cities in the Earth Kingdom (unless I am forgetting one) so capturing both would mean a successful conquest, however in a modern setting just taking the capital is nothing. Take ENT Storm Front as an example, DC along with a large portion of the East Coast was taken but the US as a country still existed due to there being many other large metropolitan centers and with instant (or near) communication it allows the command structure to be transferred quickly.
You would have to take out all major cities, which is what the Fire Nation did.

 

[Christopher]

Well, we're not talking about a modern setting, we're talking about the Earth Kingdom.

Omashu and Ba Sing Se are the largest, most politically powerful cities in the EK, but not the only ones. A city called Taku used to exist in the western kingdom but was invaded and destroyed by the Fire Nation in their first wave of attacks. Apparently the FN has already conquered or eradicated most of the EK's major cities, leaving mostly just towns and villages. Omashu and Ba Sing Se were the last holdouts in the century-long war.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Where is the Northern Water Tribe? They're an actual military power on their side.

Well, considering that they sat out basically the entire war up until that point, they don't have a great track record of understanding the importance of events in the rest of the world.

 

[Graywand2]

Not that they'd actually do this in the movie but do you think that it would be amusing for them to play the "Amok Time" music during the duel between Zuko and Katara at the Spirit Oasis.

 

[Thestral]

Ok, so I'm finally caught up with this thread after a multi-episode absolute binge.

Part of me feels guilty for burning through this series so fast, but it's so addictive and so good!

The writing and storylines, and the characters as presented and their arcs, are amazing. Part of what got me to start looking at this show was somebody's claim (Christopher?) that Avatar is the best cartoon of the 2000s, and I wanted to quibble with that but felt I should watch it first (I would have quibbled and put up the Justice League DCAU entries). Well... I think now that's true; at least of the cartoons that I've seen, Avatar: TLA is the best of the decade, and perhaps (pending the ending) among the best ever.

Some minor thoughts on the series up to this point -

I was curious about the technology of the Fire Nation at the beginning, although it does make sense with the ability they had. But something else occurred to me as well. Each of the other elements has been shown to be useful for practical purposes, especially transportation, in and of themselves. But Fire Bending, until the invention of the balloons I suppose, couldn't directly be used in such a way; hence the metal smithing and steampunk-era technology.

A very minor quibble, more of a minor lament really. Despite his played-for-laughs performance as a warrior in early Season 1, I really liked the Southern Water Tribe warpaint that Sokka had and kinda wish it had made a reappearance in the Day of Black Sun episodes.

Speaking of Southern Water Tribe and having just recently watched "The Puppet Master," this show does a wonderful job of doing some remarkably bad things to its characters and asking some difficult questions. Like the Bloodbending, which was just chilling in the way that situation wasn't resolved happily. Or the truth about Ba Sing Se and the backgrounds of Zuko and what I can glean (to this point) of Azula.

My first thought when I heard Long Feng - "Ah, Lex Luthor, so good to hear you voice." Too bad I turned out to be right.

As brilliant as the overall arc and direction of the show is, it's sometimes even the little things that shine the brightest. Especially some of Sokka's and Toph's one-liners and exchanges.
"It's dark and I can't see a thing!!!"
"Oh yes, what a nightmarish situation."

Sokka overall has had a really nice arc and has done a great job of being the Badass Normal as he grows into a leader.

The Fire Nation strikes me as corrupted/rotten at the core, but Season Three thus far is doing a nice job reminding us that the great majority of them are good people too. Even most of the villains. I hope Mai and Ty Lee get some good closure. I'm confident Zuko and Iroh will.

Oh Iroh, perhaps the wisest character in this show. "Tales of Ba Sing Se" was a really good episode in its own right, but Iroh's segment was hearbreaking and wonderful. I especially loved his words of advice when Aang was telling him about the guru telling him to let go of all wordly attachments to control the power of the Avatar State, and Iroh reminds Aang that power and security are a poor substitute for connection and love. Can't wait to see where he ends up.

Speaking of the Avatar State, I'm getting the feeling that that storyline has dead-ended and either it's not something Aang should be concerned about or the Guru was wrong in some way with regards to severing all connection. I thought that at the time (and when Iroh said his bit), but seeing the backstory of Avatar Ruko strenghtened that thought for me.

I'm guessing since she was brought up again by Azula that we'll see Suki again. Which is good, since it is a kid's show and Sokka deserves to be happy. Though I do wonder about whether or not Azula being the sadist she is would really have let the Warriors of Kyoshi live.

I was absolutely ROLLING during Aang's massive hallucination with Appa and Momo talking and then going after one another. Mostly the talking though.

I wonder if we'll find out anything about one of the Water Avatars? Ruko's been an important part of course, and Kyoshi's legacy has been important and she made one excellent appearance. But except for a couple-second flashback, there's not been any info on a Water Avatar.

I have a hard time with visually distinguishing the motions of Airbending. Waterbending's flowing, Earthbending's blunt and forceful (sometimes brutal), and Firebending's powerful energetic motions are distinctive for me. Maybe it's just that Aang's the only one we see Airbending.

All of these characters are great, though Katara's clearly the soul of the group.

 

[Mr Light]

Finished the "Boiling Prison" two parter. I think it's a little dumb that Sokka went off without Aang or Katara and was planning to go alone as he's the only one without any powers. I know it was a point of honor but that's just dangerous. I was very surprised to see Mai and Ty Lee both end up turning on Azula; I wonder what will come of them now. Join the good guys? Rot in prison? While Season Three is turning out good I truly feel the loss of Iroh as a character. His prison breakout occurs off screen. The big revelation about him and the dragons he isn't even in the episode. Plus I really wanted to see him join the group and train Aang. It's a shame. I almost think they should have just killed the character off rather than him perpetually off-screen.

 

[Christopher]

I'm guessing since she was brought up again by Azula that we'll see Suki again. Which is good, since it is a kid's show and Sokka deserves to be happy.

Heh-heh-heh... let's just say that there's something coming up involving Suki that will make you rethink that "kid's show" assessment...

 

[exodus]

Finished the "Boiling Prison" two parter. I think it's a little dumb that Sokka went off without Aang or Katara and was planning to go alone as he's the only one without any powers. I know it was a point of honor but that's just dangerous. I was very surprised to see Mai and Ty Lee both end up turning on Azula; I wonder what will come of them now. Join the good guys? Rot in prison? While Season Three is turning out good I truly feel the loss of Iroh as a character. His prison breakout occurs off screen. The big revelation about him and the dragons he isn't even in the episode. Plus I really wanted to see him join the group and train Aang. It's a shame. I almost think they should have just killed the character off rather than him perpetually off-screen.

Patience.
Iroh still has a major part to play.

Sokka doesn't have "powers", this is true but if you watched the show closely, Sokka is a great stratigist.
He's always figures out a plan.

 

[Graywand2]

So's Katara, by the way. Her plan to cause an uprising on that labor camp rig was brilliant.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I was curious about the technology of the Fire Nation at the beginning, although it does make sense with the ability they had. But something else occurred to me as well. Each of the other elements has been shown to be useful for practical purposes, especially transportation, in and of themselves. But Fire Bending, until the invention of the balloons I suppose, couldn't directly be used in such a way; hence the metal smithing and steampunk-era technology.

Your point is very accurate, but here's an alternative way to look at things (and both are valid I think).

The Air Nomads were the least technological, and the most connected to nature. They developed an affinity to the Air element because of how they lived, rather than the other way around. The Water Tribe comes next in terms of technology and sophiistication. The Earth Kingdom is far more organised, and fixed like stone, but also with a technology more based on levers and counter-weights.

The Fire Nation is at the other extreme from the Air Nomads. Like you say, it is steam-punk, and it is a 19th century level of technology, compared to the Earth Kingdom's Medieval tech.

The Water Tribe is a tougher fit, because of location. Really they should be settled agrarians and herders, compared to the Air Nomad hunter-gather society. Because of the ice, we see them relying on more fishing and hunting, but they are still settled into villiages, towns, and one city, in a way that the Air Nomads weren't.

Looking then at the Guru, he is the solitary Shramana, probably the proto-Hindu belief system that led to Buddhism. The tribes all fall into progressively more modern and more contrived Buddist sects. With the Fire Nation we run into the paradox of a nation committing genocide and many other atrocities, while holding superficially to a spiritually that is based on harming none. Well, let's come out and say it, early 20th century Japan.

I see the development of the different elements/bending as coming from how they lived, rather than vice versa.

Anyway, that's my personal analysis, have fun with it.

I have a hard time with visually distinguishing the motions of Airbending. Waterbending's flowing, Earthbending's blunt and forceful (sometimes brutal), and Firebending's powerful energetic motions are distinctive for me. Maybe it's just that Aang's the only one we see Airbending.

Airbending is based on Ba Gua (Pa Qua) which is walking in a circle, usually stepping around and behind your opponent. Heavy on evasion and avoiding. You see it very clearly in the first season when Aang is fighting Zuko on the ship for example. As the series goes on, he uses it less and less, because he is now mixing styles. We see Airbending mostly as flight, etc, and it doesn't naturally seem to be as offensive.

 

[Thestral]

So I've now finished the show and I want more! (I know, I know, there's no real need for more)

I'll keep my comments to where Mr Light is though since it's his thread.

Finished the "Boiling Prison" two parter. I think it's a little dumb that Sokka went off without Aang or Katara and was planning to go alone as he's the only one without any powers. I know it was a point of honor but that's just dangerous. I was very surprised to see Mai and Ty Lee both end up turning on Azula; I wonder what will come of them now. Join the good guys? Rot in prison? While Season Three is turning out good I truly feel the loss of Iroh as a character. His prison breakout occurs off screen. The big revelation about him and the dragons he isn't even in the episode. Plus I really wanted to see him join the group and train Aang. It's a shame. I almost think they should have just killed the character off rather than him perpetually off-screen.

He went off without Aang or Katara... and Toph, don't forget poor Toph.

I agree for the most part, I wasn't sure about the "take somebody from Team Avatar to go on an adventure with Zuko" format (as was also used in The Firebending Masters), but it was nice to give Sokka some spotlight, and nice to see some of these secondary characters again, especially Suki, Mai, and Ty Lee. I was glad to see Mai and Ty Lee switch sides, though a bit surprised by Mai. After Zuko left her in the prison, I'm not entirely clear what got her to have a change of heart. I mean, I approve of it because I like Zuko and Mai, but I wasn't clear about when the forgiveness happened. Ty Lee made more sense because Azula was about to attack Mai in front of her.

I too lament the continued lack of Iroh, but the revelation about his time with the dragons makes a lot of sense. Season Three is very good but something just seems a little off as compared to Season Two. Not sure what, and the loss of Iroh can't be the whole thing.

I'm guessing since she was brought up again by Azula that we'll see Suki again. Which is good, since it is a kid's show and Sokka deserves to be happy.

Heh-heh-heh... let's just say that there's something coming up involving Suki that will make you rethink that "kid's show" assessment...

Really? Which episode are you referring to? I kept an eye out for what Suki was doing cause of this comment but maybe I missed something?

The "kid's show" assessment wasn't meant as a knock. Maybe "kid-appropriate" would have been better? And even then, some of the stuff these characters are challenged with...

I was curious about the technology of the Fire Nation at the beginning, although it does make sense with the ability they had. But something else occurred to me as well. Each of the other elements has been shown to be useful for practical purposes, especially transportation, in and of themselves. But Fire Bending, until the invention of the balloons I suppose, couldn't directly be used in such a way; hence the metal smithing and steampunk-era technology.

Your point is very accurate, but here's an alternative way to look at things (and both are valid I think).

The Air Nomads were the least technological, and the most connected to nature. They developed an affinity to the Air element because of how they lived, rather than the other way around. The Water Tribe comes next in terms of technology and sophiistication. The Earth Kingdom is far more organised, and fixed like stone, but also with a technology more based on levers and counter-weights.

The Fire Nation is at the other extreme from the Air Nomads. Like you say, it is steam-punk, and it is a 19th century level of technology, compared to the Earth Kingdom's Medieval tech.

The Water Tribe is a tougher fit, because of location. Really they should be settled agrarians and herders, compared to the Air Nomad hunter-gather society. Because of the ice, we see them relying on more fishing and hunting, but they are still settled into villiages, towns, and one city, in a way that the Air Nomads weren't.

Looking then at the Guru, he is the solitary Shramana, probably the proto-Hindu belief system that led to Buddhism. The tribes all fall into progressively more modern and more contrived Buddist sects. With the Fire Nation we run into the paradox of a nation committing genocide and many other atrocities, while holding superficially to a spiritually that is based on harming none. Well, let's come out and say it, early 20th century Japan.

I see the development of the different elements/bending as coming from how they lived, rather than vice versa.

Anyway, that's my personal analysis, have fun with it.

Hmm, that's an interesting way of looking at it. Did the element form the society or did the society form the elemental channeling?

You comments about the Air Nomads raised another point for me though, and something I have trouble with. How can they be nomads when they've got these four magnificent temples? Also, how can they be nomads and vegetarians at the same time? You referred to them as "hunter gatherers" but as presented on the show they'd just be "gatherers." Doesn't true vegetarianism usually require some sort of agriculture (maybe they're not linked, I don't know)? Maybe they're semi-nomadic with certain key sites that they keep coming back to, like the temples?

I also got the sense that the Water Tribes that are left are a sort of remnant of a once much-larger culture, especially since Katara is the only remaining Waterbender of the Southern Water Tribe (after The Puppetmaster). But I want to talk more about that after Mr Light's finished the show, because the societal stuff I want to talk about has some post-finale elements.

I have a hard time with visually distinguishing the motions of Airbending. Waterbending's flowing, Earthbending's blunt and forceful (sometimes brutal), and Firebending's powerful energetic motions are distinctive for me. Maybe it's just that Aang's the only one we see Airbending.

Airbending is based on Ba Gua (Pa Qua) which is walking in a circle, usually stepping around and behind your opponent. Heavy on evasion and avoiding. You see it very clearly in the first season when Aang is fighting Zuko on the ship for example. As the series goes on, he uses it less and less, because he is now mixing styles. We see Airbending mostly as flight, etc, and it doesn't naturally seem to be as offensive.

Right, I got that intellectually, but I'm having a hard time visualizing it in the same way as the other bending types. Maybe like you said because it's more evasive and avoidant, or maybe I'll just have to go back and look. Aang being the only Airbender I do think is a part of it as well.

 

[Christopher]

Heh-heh-heh... let's just say that there's something coming up involving Suki that will make you rethink that "kid's show" assessment...

Really? Which episode are you referring to? I kept an eye out for what Suki was doing cause of this comment but maybe I missed something?

Just in case others haven't finished the show yet, I'll box it:

Spoiler: Sozin's Comet

I'm referring to the scene where Suki is trying to sneak into Sokka's tent at night and he's waiting for her in a romantic pose. They were pretty clearly planning to spend the night together.

Hmm, that's an interesting way of looking at it. Did the element form the society or did the society form the elemental channeling?

I believe the idea is that the nations' bending abilities reflect their innate character. The qualities of their cultures and psyches give them a spiritual affinity with the qualities of their respective elements.

You comments about the Air Nomads raised another point for me though, and something I have trouble with. How can they be nomads when they've got these four magnificent temples?

Nomads aren't homeless. Generally, they're migratory, moving cyclically between different settlements, grazing territories, or the like. The Air Nomads would've migrated among the four temples over the course of each year.

Lots of famous historic locales weren't permanently settled but were part of a migratory cycle. The Anasazi ruins, for instance, probably weren't a permanent residence but were instead a religious site occupied for part of the year.

 

[Thestral]

Heh-heh-heh... let's just say that there's something coming up involving Suki that will make you rethink that "kid's show" assessment...

Really? Which episode are you referring to? I kept an eye out for what Suki was doing cause of this comment but maybe I missed something?

Just in case others haven't finished the show yet, I'll box it:

Spoiler: Sozin's Comet

I'm referring to the scene where Suki is trying to sneak into Sokka's tent at night and he's waiting for her in a romantic pose. They were pretty clearly planning to spend the night together.

Ah, that. I thought you might be referring to that.

Spoiler: Sozin's Comet

I definitely drew the same conclusion on what was going on in that scene. But it seemed so much less... I dunno what the right word is, concerning? Non-kid-friendly?... than the events of The Southern Raiders or The Puppetmaster (for example). Suki sneaking into Sokka's tent to stay the night seemed pretty normal, especially since the show had been upping the romantic element between the older characters. And it was mostly played for laughs; it was there for those who knew what was going on, and in another show I might have wanted a bit more of a look at that decision, but the romantic relationships for the characters didn't get a lot of exploration. Well, except Aang and Katara to some extent. But this spoiler-tag comment is getting long enough now.

Hmm, that's an interesting way of looking at it. Did the element form the society or did the society form the elemental channeling?

I believe the idea is that the nations' bending abilities reflect their innate character. The qualities of their cultures and psyches give them a spiritual affinity with the qualities of their respective elements.

That makes sense I guess. So the culture continued developing the way it had already been, just with the bending amplifying it in some way.

Like I said, I'll wait till Mr Light has seen the end to ask some more questions about the cultures since part of what I wanna talk about has to do with the post-ending status quo.

You comments about the Air Nomads raised another point for me though, and something I have trouble with. How can they be nomads when they've got these four magnificent temples?

Nomads aren't homeless. Generally, they're migratory, moving cyclically between different settlements, grazing territories, or the like. The Air Nomads would've migrated among the four temples over the course of each year.

Lots of famous historic locales weren't permanently settled but were part of a migratory cycle. The Anasazi ruins, for instance, probably weren't a permanent residence but were instead a religious site occupied for part of the year.

Okay, that makes sense. I wasn't thinking of them as homeless, just too transitory to settle down long enough to build something like the temples. But the seasonal migration makes more sense.

Although that does seem to slightly conflict with "The Storm" when the monks talk about sending Aang to the Eastern Air Temple as being away from Monk Gyatso. Maybe there's more than one "band" of Air Nomads and they migrated from temple to temple, thus Aang was being sent to another "band"?

 

[exodus]

^^Keep in mind, Ang knew Boomi as a child.
They had to have meet during Ang's nomadic travels going somewhere, right?