Just Started Avatar The Last Airbender

[Mr Light]

I don't recall Azula being inappropriately seductive towards her brother but I'm definitely gonna rewatch the whole series before selling it off. I know the scene you're talking about vaguely. We'll see! Also, if Ozai was molesting her, why does he show such inattention to her at the end? He clearly doesn't give a crap about her. Sure he lets her become the Fire Lord but it's because he's onto bigger and better things. Actually I think the *real* reason he did that was because he didn't want super-charged Azula around him. He probably suspected she would try to kill and usurp him.

 

[Mr Light]

I just thought of something. Aaang's chi was blocked in the S2 finale so he couldn't do the avatar state anymore. But in the final fight, his back gets poked with a rock on his wound and he can do it again. I didn't really follow that. Why would that re-open it?

 

[Christopher]

I don't recall Azula being inappropriately seductive towards her brother but I'm definitely gonna rewatch the whole series before selling it off. I know the scene you're talking about vaguely. We'll see!

It's subtle -- of course it would have to be -- but I got a creepy vibe watching her in that scene.

Also, if Ozai was molesting her, why does he show such inattention to her at the end? He clearly doesn't give a crap about her.

Yes, and? If he cared for her, he wouldn't abuse and exploit her. Sexual molestation is a way of degrading someone, reducing them to an object, using them for your own gratification without giving a thought to their needs or feelings. That's entirely consistent with Ozai tossing Azula aside once he decided he didn't need her anymore.

Sure he lets her become the Fire Lord but it's because he's onto bigger and better things. Actually I think the *real* reason he did that was because he didn't want super-charged Azula around him. He probably suspected she would try to kill and usurp him.

Certainly a possibility, but again, not inconsistent with my hypothesis. He uses her when it suits his ends, and discards her when it suits his ends. Classic behavior of a narcissistic megalomaniac.

I just thought of something. Aaang's chi was blocked in the S2 finale so he couldn't do the avatar state anymore. But in the final fight, his back gets poked with a rock on his wound and he can do it again. I didn't really follow that. Why would that re-open it?

I'd say it's the same principle as acupuncture or acupressure, which is supposedly all about using tactile manipulation of the chi points to alter the flow of chi/energy through the body. Just as martial arts are about directing chi through the movement of the body. In Western spiritual thought, we tend to think of the spiritual as something divorced from the physical, an intangible essence that's merely riding within a hunk of meat without really being a part of it. In Eastern thought, the physical and spiritual are more deeply intertwined. That's why benders need to perform the right motions to affect the elements, rather than simply being able to do it with their minds. It's also why Sokka was able to block Combustion Man's firebolts by striking him in the "third eye" chakra with his boomerang -- that blocked CM's ability to discharge chi from that chakra (kinda blending Chinese and Indian concepts there) and caused it to backfire. In Aang's case, Azula's strike to that chakra on his back caused it to become blocked, and this blow unblocked it.

So why couldn't it have been unblocked before with a simple slap to the back? Actually I don't have a good answer for that. Maybe it was a one-in-a-million freak impact, destiny taking a hand in things. Or maybe Aang had to be mentally ready before the physical component could take effect.

 

[Mr Light]

Didn't the guru also say that unless he abandons his love for Katara he could never achieve the true avatar state? He clearly didn't do this.

 

[SG-17]

Didn't the guru also say that unless he abandons his love for Katara he could never achieve the true avatar state? He clearly didn't do this.

Iroh explained to him that wasn't necessarily true. He told him that he was smart for taking the path that would lead him to happiness instead of the one to ultimate power.
Iroh has an immense knowledge of the spirit and spirit world, having been there himself.

 

[Christopher]

I don't think Guru Nanak meant abandoning love, just letting go of attachment. And Aang actually did that in the second-season finale. He wanted to go help Katara when she was under attack, but he recognized that he had to focus entirely on achieving the Avatar State and not allow any distractions. It's not that he didn't still care for Katara, just that he accepted that he had to trust her to take care of herself while he concentrated on his greater responsibility and purpose at that moment. And he was succeeding in opening the Avatar State until Azula struck him in the back and closed his chakra.

It's like meditation. To achieve a meditative state, you have to clear your mind of all thoughts, all distractions. Any thought that comes into your head, positive or negative, you just acknowledge it and set it aside rather than dwelling on it, letting it be an attachment that holds you down. That doesn't mean you abandon those feelings forever, but you have to be able to set them aside as needed to achieve a meditative state.

 

[Thestral]

And I'm sure he wouldn't do it coercively. I think if people volunteer for it, probably people who don't have bending ability of their own anyway, then there'd be nothing ethically or spiritually wrong about it.

I would expect nothing less of the Avatar.

What I'm saying is, I don't think Ursa's the one to blame. I think she offered both her children equal love, but Azula rejected it.

Nah, not so much blaming Ursa, just wondering why, from the flashbacks we see, she seems more hostile to Azula than to Zuko. Though in light of your theory, which I think makes perfect sense actually, that could be part of it.

In fact, I'd like to think that maybe after the finale, with Azula totally broken, Iroh might take it upon himself to try to rehabilitate and redeem her. She could be capable of great things if she could be healed and reformed. But I'm not sure Iroh would do that, since he's the one who said Azula was crazy and had to be taken down. He didn't seem to have a lot of patience with her.

It's an interesting idea. Azula's so broken...

"Southern Raiders" I thought was going to be one huge flashback episode with just a framing device so I was a little disappointed how brief the flashbacks were. Still, seeing Katara go renegade was nice; she even blood-bended again! I was surprised Zuko didn't kill the guy for her; I kept expecting them to turn their backs and walk away and the guy tries to flame her back and Zuko spins around and flambes him. Kudos for not taking the easy route.

Like I said, Southern Raiders left me frustrated.

I would have liked to have seen a longer, more in-depth look at what was going on for Katara and more time spent in explaining some of the concepts that were being hinted at. Forgiveness, reconciliation, revenge, rage, guilt, this was a very complex episode emotionally, but I think it could have been even better.

For example, I would have liked to see Katara (or someone else) explicitly name that if she kept going down the path she was going down, she'd do more harm to herself than to anyone else; Aang alludes to this with the monks' proverb, but the point could have been stronger. The use of the bloodbending was a reference to Hama of course, and for Katara to realize that she was being twisted by rage and guilt the same way Hama was would have made things stronger I think. Constructing the scene in which Katara confronts her mother's killer in a way that more closely paralleled what happened the day her mother died (that is, perhaps with an innocent bystander like a grandchild) would have been a more poignant way to bring her to that realization of the precipice she teetered on. Letting Katara bring herself back from the brink of murder is good, but saying "You're empty and small and worthless" is different from "This won't bring my mother back and will only further poison me to take a life in revenge."

Katara's harsh words towards Sokka were never followed up on or apologized for, which I think was a bit of a disservice and robbed the audience of a chance to get a closer look at that. Especially in light of what we (and Katara) learned in The Runaway, this could be an opportunity for Katara to grieve in a way she couldn't before since she'd been a surrogate mother to Sokka for so long. Not to mention the increased pain and guilt she would've been suffering from over not being able to help her mother ("I'm not that scared little girl any more...") and seeing her immediately after she was killed.

There's more no doubt but I didn't write this down, so maybe it'll come to me later...

The Zuko/Azula duel was also wonderful. I didn't mind the way that Azula self-destructed on her own emotionally as it made perfect sense for the character.

Azula's self-destruction was painful and sad to watch. It was weird, but I pitied Azula so much in her madness and fire-breathing insanity. Although I was really glad to see Katara defeat her in the end.

One thing that stuck out at me about Azula in the last few episodes (and especially in Sozin's Comet) is that she rarely used lightning anymore, but mostly blue fire, and I interpreted that as symbolic of her loss of control (though I'm starting to wonder that, anybody else think that's right?)

Hey I just realized something, we never found out if Zuko's mother was alive or not!

That's one of my niggling concerns and I wish we'd gotten to see Ursa, or at least be sure of her fate.

The airship fleet sequence was great as well. Everybody gets a moment to shine. Although I have to say, Suki was a total waste of a character joining the crew. She doens't talk, she doesn't really have a personality, she's just there to kiss Sokka.

Intriguing, because my airship fleet complaint wasn't about Suki, but Toph. As much as I loved all the focus that the characters got in Season 3, I felt like Toph got passed over. Except for The Runaway, which was a joint Toph/Katara episode, Toph kinda got sidelined IMO. She was funny, she kicked ass, but we really didn't get much of her; Zuko got more attention. We never got to find out if she was reconciled with her parents, despite the sending of the messenger hawk back to the Earth Kingdom. We never got to see Toph have a "field trip with Zuko" although Aang, Katara, and Sokka did (and Sokka's was a two parter); and when it was brought up, it was played for laughs.

The airship scene epitomized that for me; except for one instance of metalbending a rudder, what did Toph do - especially as a blind girl hundreds of feet up with no way of really sensing what was going on around her? IMO she'd have been better served helping the White Lotus at Ba Sing Se, and maybe there be re-united with her parents.

Meandering now and some other post-finale thoughts; speaking of Ba Sing Se, I was hoping for another appearance by Long Feng, a final stand for him and the Dai Li if you will against the White Lotus Society. After all, if they could bring back Piandao and Jeong Jeong it would've been nice to see Long Feng make his smarmy villainy known. Likewise it would've been nice to see the Earth King (and more importantly Bosco!) again.

Looking back at the three finales, I'm struck by how Zuko and Katara were somehow connected in all three, but in totally different situations. In the Water finale, Zuko duels Katara to steal away Aang while she guards him; they trade upper hands and Zuko gets away with Aang after defeating her, but that night she quickly and easily dispatches him under the full moon. In the Earth finale, Zuko and Katara seem to be making a connection but he ultimately betrays and fights against her at Azula's side. Then in Sozin's Comet, Zuko and Katara face Azula together and he takes a bolt of lightning for Katara when Azula breaks the Agni Kai, leaving Katara to defeat Azula. I'm sure the parallel was purposeful and it was well done (and amusingly enough I didn't pick up on this until after Sozin's Comet).

When Aang entered the Avatar state against Ozai, a part of me wondered if this show was going to go to a much darker place than I expected before coming out, with Avatar-Aang killing Ozai and rampaging before having to be "brought out of it" by Katara as he had been in the past.

This might seem odd, but I was disappointed that Koh the Face Stealer didn't make another appearance except in flashback. I thought Koh was a stylishly effective and very creepy encounter/potential villain, a la Doctor Who's Weeping Angels. I'm not sure what role he (or other spirits) could have played, but when he told Aang "We'll meet again" I was looking forward to it.

I still lament the lack of Iroh in Season 3. His part was awesome, but also too small for my tastes. But that's a small-ish complaint.

I don't recall Azula being inappropriately seductive towards her brother but I'm definitely gonna rewatch the whole series before selling it off. I know the scene you're talking about vaguely. We'll see!

It's subtle -- of course it would have to be -- but I got a creepy vibe watching her in that scene.

Also, if Ozai was molesting her, why does he show such inattention to her at the end? He clearly doesn't give a crap about her.

Yes, and? If he cared for her, he wouldn't abuse and exploit her. Sexual molestation is a way of degrading someone, reducing them to an object, using them for your own gratification without giving a thought to their needs or feelings. That's entirely consistent with Ozai tossing Azula aside once he decided he didn't need her anymore.

Sure he lets her become the Fire Lord but it's because he's onto bigger and better things. Actually I think the *real* reason he did that was because he didn't want super-charged Azula around him. He probably suspected she would try to kill and usurp him.

Certainly a possibility, but again, not inconsistent with my hypothesis. He uses her when it suits his ends, and discards her when it suits his ends. Classic behavior of a narcissistic megalomaniac.

I completely agree with Christopher. It's subtle and never directly stated, nor would I expect it to be, but Azula as a victim of Ozai's sexual abuse makes a lot of sense from what we know of both characters. And IMO makes Azula in The Beach and her reaction to Mai and Ty Lee's "betrayal" that much sadder, because she's so profoundly broken, unable to form healthy connections because one of the most vital was so horribly twisted.

In Western spiritual thought, we tend to think of the spiritual as something divorced from the physical, an intangible essence that's merely riding within a hunk of meat without really being a part of it. In Eastern thought, the physical and spiritual are more deeply intertwined.

More deeply intertwined in some "Western" (a term I dislike) spiritualities too, I think, just not in the dominant one that's been so influenced by Greek though.

So why couldn't it have been unblocked before with a simple slap to the back? Actually I don't have a good answer for that. Maybe it was a one-in-a-million freak impact, destiny taking a hand in things. Or maybe Aang had to be mentally ready before the physical component could take effect.

I actually missed the impact the first time I watched that scene, and just assumed Aang had reached such a point of desperation and self-preservation that he forced the Avatar state (hence my initial fear about rampaging Avatar Aang).

Didn't the guru also say that unless he abandons his love for Katara he could never achieve the true avatar state? He clearly didn't do this.

Iroh explained to him that wasn't necessarily true. He told him that he was smart for taking the path that would lead him to happiness instead of the one to ultimate power.
Iroh has an immense knowledge of the spirit and spirit world, having been there himself.

I agree with you guys' interpretation of this, that the Guru was simply wrong. Guru Nanak wasn't just saying "set your love aside for now," but "You must let her go" and "If you don't let her go, you will never achieve the Avatar State." Maybe he was misinformed since Aang eventually did unlock the Avatar State by setting aside his feelings for Katara "for the moment," but the Guru at least appeared to believe it was a permanent thing. And really, Iroh had the right of it, as he always does.

 

[Mr Light]

Holy crap, I completely forgot about the Earth King and Long Feng. They should have resolved that. I agree that Toph was short-shifted in S3, but after her extremely prominent role through all of S2 it was only fair to give the other characters more screen time. Actually come to think of it, Toph is definitely my favorite character. Not only is she the funniest she's by the far the most bad ass and powerful. You're right she should have fought at Ba Sing Se, particularly given her affection for Iroh. Maybe instead of the Azula fight happening at the Fire capitol it all should have been set in Ba Sing Se except for the Aang/Ozai duel because those rock fingers were awesome.

 

[Christopher]

Like I said, Southern Raiders left me frustrated.

I would have liked to have seen a longer, more in-depth look at what was going on for Katara and more time spent in explaining some of the concepts that were being hinted at. Forgiveness, reconciliation, revenge, rage, guilt, this was a very complex episode emotionally, but I think it could have been even better.

That's the problem with having a limited season length; some things have to get more focus than others.

For example, I would have liked to see Katara (or someone else) explicitly name that if she kept going down the path she was going down, she'd do more harm to herself than to anyone else; Aang alludes to this with the monks' proverb, but the point could have been stronger. The use of the bloodbending was a reference to Hama of course, and for Katara to realize that she was being twisted by rage and guilt the same way Hama was would have made things stronger I think. Constructing the scene in which Katara confronts her mother's killer in a way that more closely paralleled what happened the day her mother died (that is, perhaps with an innocent bystander like a grandchild) would have been a more poignant way to bring her to that realization of the precipice she teetered on.

I think all that was there, but it was left as subtext rather than explicitly spelled out. Subtlety can be a good thing.

Azula's self-destruction was painful and sad to watch. It was weird, but I pitied Azula so much in her madness and fire-breathing insanity. Although I was really glad to see Katara defeat her in the end.

Yeah. That was so brilliant. All through the series, Azula had been this totally awful, evil character, but in her final defeat, the writing, directing, and acting made us feel sorry for her rather than inviting us to gloat over her destruction. Even though it was the defeat of the series' archnemesis (since she was always a more prominent character than Ozai), it felt more like a tragedy. We looked at her broken and wailing and realized that for all she'd done, this was still just a 14-year-old girl. (And Grey Delisle in particular deserves high praise for her wrenching voice performance.)

Although when I first saw it, I wasn't happy about the way Azula basically tore herself down. Too many cartoons make it easy on their heroes by having the villains be incompetent or doomed by their own psychological hang-ups. Azula was such an awesome villainess because she was so smart, cunning, and capable, always three steps ahead of the heroes, never shooting herself in the foot but forcing the heroes to really raise their game just to survive encounters with her. I mean, this girl almost single-handedly conquered the most heavily defended city in the world. She was truly a force to be reckoned with, without the usual contrived vulnerabilities that cartoon villains are given to stack the deck in the heroes' favor. So when she started to go bugnuts and stripped herself of every means of support, leaving herself vulnerable and easier to defeat, it felt like a copout, a cheat -- like the writers were deliberately handicapping her so that the heroes would have an easier time bringing her down. I still find that regrettable, but I can understand why it worked from a character standpoint.

One thing that stuck out at me about Azula in the last few episodes (and especially in Sozin's Comet) is that she rarely used lightning anymore, but mostly blue fire, and I interpreted that as symbolic of her loss of control (though I'm starting to wonder that, anybody else think that's right?)

That's the other thing that bugs me about her final battle with Zuko and Katara. Her lightning-bending shouldn't have worked when she was in such an unbalanced mental state. After all, we were told before that it was something that required total focus and balance. What I was expecting was that the crazed Azula would call down the lightning and kill herself trying to control it. Now, naturally I'm happier the way it turned out, with Katara achieving a true Crowning Moment of Awesome to defeat her, but it just doesn't make sense that Azula could still lightning-bend.

I still lament the lack of Iroh in Season 3. His part was awesome, but also too small for my tastes. But that's a small-ish complaint.

Given that Mako was such a hard act to follow, I'm actually glad they didn't use Greg Baldwin as Iroh too much. To be honest, I almost would've preferred to see Iroh killed off rather than recast.

I agree with you guys' interpretation of this, that the Guru was simply wrong. Guru Nanak wasn't just saying "set your love aside for now," but "You must let her go" and "If you don't let her go, you will never achieve the Avatar State." Maybe he was misinformed since Aang eventually did unlock the Avatar State by setting aside his feelings for Katara "for the moment," but the Guru at least appeared to believe it was a permanent thing. And really, Iroh had the right of it, as he always does.

I wouldn't say that Nanak was wrong so much as that his information was incomplete. What he was teaching was a proven way to achieve the goal. But if there's one thing that defined Aang's journey in the final half-season, and perhaps even the whole series, it's that he refused to limit himself to the assumptions and expectations others had about his role. He found new ways to achieve his goals. Everyone told him he had to kill Ozai to win, and he rejected that and found a better way. That doesn't mean killing Ozai wouldn't have worked, but it does mean it wasn't the only answer. So by the same token, Nanak was right, he just wasn't entirely right. His path would've worked, but Aang found another way.

 

[Graywand2]

I still personally find the Lion Turtle a tad annoying Deus ex Machina contrived solely so parents group don't slam them for openly showing the main characters killing other people in the finale.

It was still cool though, but a little contrived. It would've been better if Aang had been forced to kill Ozai, thereby having to deal with the effects of that the rest of his life.

 

[exodus]

I still personally find the Lion Turtle a tad annoying Deus ex Machina contrived solely so parents group don't slam them for openly showing the main characters killing other people in the finale.

It was still cool though, but a little contrived. It would've been better if Aang had been forced to kill Ozai, thereby having to deal with the effects of that the rest of his life.

.but it was the last story, so we were never going to see him deal with those effects, so what would be the point?

Second, Ang was raised by Monks.
So there was a very remote chance of having him deal with killing someone to begin with. It's just the classic cliche of true heroes not killing. Besides, it's greater justice having the villain live to see all his efforts destroyed before his very eyes.

Tragic irony or Poetic justice, you tell me?

 

[Graywand2]

Point taken.

 

[Christopher]

As I said, Aang's defining arc in the final episodes was that he rose above conventional expectations and found new solutions. Everyone was telling him that killing was the only way to win, so where would the triumph have been if he'd just accepted that? The fact that he refused to compromise and found a new solution rather than just bowing to conventional wisdom made him a more impressive hero. It was the culmination of his journey, because it was the moment where he truly defined himself as an individual, as someone who was special not just because he was the Avatar but because he was Aang. Because he refused to compromise who he was and what he believed in order to submit to what everyone else told him he had to be.

Sparing Ozai wasn't a copout. The copout would've been killing him, because then Aang would've just been a puppet of other people's expectations. And because it would've been the easy way out. And because there would've been no surprise. Where's the fun in a story where the climax is exactly what you expect it to be?

Yes, the Lion-Turtle may have been something of a deus ex machina, but not entirely. One of Aang's defining traits is his affinity and rapport with animals. An Avatar without that quality might not have been receptive to the Lion-Turtle's message. And an Avatar who had given in to the assumption that he had to kill to win would never have bothered to seek out an alternative such as the one the Lion-Turtle offered. So it wasn't truly a deus ex machina, because it did happen because of who Aang was -- the fact that he was determined to find a more creative and moral solution and the fact that he was receptive to the animal/spiritual guidance that others might have overlooked.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

^And emphasising that was Aang's advice from his previous incarnations, all of whom advised him to kill Ozai and be done with it.

Aang seemed to truly evolve, taking the concept of being Avatar a step further than had been done before. Although we only have few details of previous incarnations, it certainly comes across that Aang's journey was a remarkable one, and that at a very young age he struggled, overcame, and reached his destination, his destiny, in a fashion far beyond what any Avatar had done before.

As he opened to each element, and then opened his chakras, he also opened to a thousand new possibilities. Compared to the one incarnation we know best, Roku had a fairly conventional family life and straightforward education in the elements. Aang's whole world was ripped apart, and he was thrust into a new time and new world that he wouldn't have been able to conceive of.

I think it had to be true that Aang's destination would be much different than any other incarnation, and his choices, and the abilities that enabled those choices, would have to be much different. I can admit that the Lion-Turtle was a deus ex machina of sorts, but it was one that was called upon by the necessity of the story, Aang's story, not just the needs of the plot. Aang had to be a different sort of Avatar, and have a different option than the one that everyone was pushing on him.

If I was going to improve on the deus-Lion-Turtle, I would have made this event somehow a culmination of the unique spirit experiences he had all through the series. In fact it pretty much was, but perhaps more obviously so. And hmmm, having wrote that, maybe it is fine the way it was, and it just took me till now to see it as final piece of the puzzle that included entities like the Moon goddess and Face Stealer.

 

[Mr Light]

^^ It would have nice if ?Yue? the moon girl gave him the secret rather than some monster island we had never met before. Or that panda bear from Season One. Or that he had to defeat Ko the Face Stealer to get the ability or something like that.

 

[Christopher]

Aang seemed to truly evolve, taking the concept of being Avatar a step further than had been done before. Although we only have few details of previous incarnations, it certainly comes across that Aang's journey was a remarkable one, and that at a very young age he struggled, overcame, and reached his destination, his destiny, in a fashion far beyond what any Avatar had done before.

Indeed. And a factor in that is that he had such an unconventional journey. The normal training process for an Avatar that had been developed over millennia was interrupted in his case when it had barely begun, and he had to figure it out on his own -- and with less than a year to do so. So he needed to learn through unconventional means and from unconventional teachers, and he needed to improvise a lot along the way.

If I was going to improve on the deus-Lion-Turtle, I would have made this event somehow a culmination of the unique spirit experiences he had all through the series. In fact it pretty much was, but perhaps more obviously so. And hmmm, having wrote that, maybe it is fine the way it was, and it just took me till now to see it as final piece of the puzzle that included entities like the Moon goddess and Face Stealer.

^^ It would have nice if ?Yue? the moon girl gave him the secret rather than some monster island we had never met before. Or that panda bear from Season One. Or that he had to defeat Ko the Face Stealer to get the ability or something like that.

I agree with LaxScrutiny's take. Those entities wouldn't have cut it, because they were on a lower tier as spiritual entities went. This was the culmination of Aang's journey, so it needed to be the culmination of the show's spiritual bestiary as well -- something vast and ancient, something that came from the dawn of time and was tied into the very creation myths of the world. This was about Aang reaching a level beyond that of a conventional Avatar, a new height in his spiritual growth. So it couldn't be an entity he'd encountered before.

And it wasn't completely out of the blue. The Lion Turtle was foreshadowed throughout the series:

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Lion_Turtle

While appearing only during the season three finale, the Lion Turtle was referenced several times:

• It is seen in a scroll in Wan Shi Tong's Library.
• A fountain at the Northern Air Temple had the shape of a Lion Turtle.
• Piandao compares Sokka's courage and heart to a Lion Turtle. Also many Lion Turtle statues can be seen in his palace.
• Its face resembles the oni mask Zuko wears when in the guise of The Blue Spirit.
• General Fong and General Sung both have shoulder protection representing the head of a Lion Turtle.

 

[Mr Light]

Yeah, I did remember multiple passing mentions of lion turtles.

 

[Thestral]

SNIP Southern Raiders thoughts..

That's the problem with having a limited season length; some things have to get more focus than others.

I think all that was there, but it was left as subtext rather than explicitly spelled out. Subtlety can be a good thing.

I suppose. A big part of why I was frustrated I think is because I think those are really important themes and bear digging into for people growing up in our culture; it's on my mind, I guess.

And that still leaves the problem with how Katara treated Sokka in this episode, which was brushed over.

Yeah. That was so brilliant. All through the series, Azula had been this totally awful, evil character, but in her final defeat, the writing, directing, and acting made us feel sorry for her rather than inviting us to gloat over her destruction. Even though it was the defeat of the series' archnemesis (since she was always a more prominent character than Ozai), it felt more like a tragedy. We looked at her broken and wailing and realized that for all she'd done, this was still just a 14-year-old girl. (And Grey Delisle in particular deserves high praise for her wrenching voice performance.)

Definitely agreed. And you know it just occurred to me - in some ways, where Azula was left at the end of the show reminds me of where Dukat was at the end of the DS9 Occupation arc (before he went all Pah Wraithy).

That's the other thing that bugs me about her final battle with Zuko and Katara. Her lightning-bending shouldn't have worked when she was in such an unbalanced mental state. After all, we were told before that it was something that required total focus and balance. What I was expecting was that the crazed Azula would call down the lightning and kill herself trying to control it. Now, naturally I'm happier the way it turned out, with Katara achieving a true Crowning Moment of Awesome to defeat her, but it just doesn't make sense that Azula could still lightning-bend.

I wonder if in a way this was just an unfortunate accident of how the Azula/Zuko/Katara duel was resolved. Zuko had shown himself eminently capable of dispelling Azula's blue fire, but there was a need to put him out of commission to give Katara her Crowning Moment of Awesome (and to set up the wonderful Fire/Water rage/self-control duel). Don't want to kill him, so a bolt of not-quite-redirected lightning works.

From an in-character perspective, there might be an explanation as well. Right before Azula bends lightning at the unprepared Katara, she seems to noticably calm and become calculating again. It looks like she's reached a moment of clarity and self-control since she thinks she's discovered a way to rip the heart out of Zuko in the Agni Kai and cause him a lot of suffering. And, of course, punish the Water Peasant who dared to stand up to her.

I wouldn't say that Nanak was wrong so much as that his information was incomplete. What he was teaching was a proven way to achieve the goal. But if there's one thing that defined Aang's journey in the final half-season, and perhaps even the whole series, it's that he refused to limit himself to the assumptions and expectations others had about his role. He found new ways to achieve his goals. Everyone told him he had to kill Ozai to win, and he rejected that and found a better way. That doesn't mean killing Ozai wouldn't have worked, but it does mean it wasn't the only answer. So by the same token, Nanak was right, he just wasn't entirely right. His path would've worked, but Aang found another way.

I can accept that; in my opinion, Aang found the superior way, but you're right in that Nanak's path would have worked. Even if it didn't necessarily jibe with what we were later shown about Roku and Kuruk (?) in their lives.

Holy crap, I completely forgot about the Earth King and Long Feng. They should have resolved that. I agree that Toph was short-shifted in S3, but after her extremely prominent role through all of S2 it was only fair to give the other characters more screen time. Actually come to think of it, Toph is definitely my favorite character. Not only is she the funniest she's by the far the most bad ass and powerful. You're right she should have fought at Ba Sing Se, particularly given her affection for Iroh. Maybe instead of the Azula fight happening at the Fire capitol it all should have been set in Ba Sing Se except for the Aang/Ozai duel because those rock fingers were awesome.

Nah, I like having Azula's fight with Zuko and Katara be at the Fire capitol because it's thematically more appropriate that Azula would be "left behind" by her father and feel angry and betrayed for not getting to be at the burning of the Earth Kingdom. And having Team Avatar split up like it is to deal with their most appropriate problem makes sense to. Katara and Zuko taking down Azula; Sokka (with Suki's help) taking down the Fire zeppelins - that were the culmination of Sokka's own invention; and Aang doing the Avatar thing. Which again makes a stronger case for Toph being at Ba Sing Se IMO.

Yes, the Lion-Turtle may have been something of a deus ex machina, but not entirely. One of Aang's defining traits is his affinity and rapport with animals... he was receptive to the animal/spiritual guidance that others might have overlooked.

Hmm, this puts Aang's story in "Tales of Ba Sing Se" in a new light for me; instead of being simply uplifting and entertaining, it also serves as a reminder of Aang's personality which will become back in the finale.

 

[Christopher]

From an in-character perspective, there might be an explanation as well. Right before Azula bends lightning at the unprepared Katara, she seems to noticably calm and become calculating again. It looks like she's reached a moment of clarity and self-control since she thinks she's discovered a way to rip the heart out of Zuko in the Agni Kai and cause him a lot of suffering. And, of course, punish the Water Peasant who dared to stand up to her.

That's plausible, I guess.

I can accept that; in my opinion, Aang found the superior way, but you're right in that Nanak's path would have worked. Even if it didn't necessarily jibe with what we were later shown about Roku and Kuruk (?) in their lives.

As I said, I don't think Nanak was saying an Avatar couldn't have relationships -- just that he had to have the mental discipline to set his emotions and attachments aside when it was needed. You know the saying, "If you love someone, let them go?" It doesn't mean giving up the relationship; it just means being non-possessive, non-controlling. It means not being so caught up in your needs and concerns and cravings that you end up sabotaging the relationship. You may have a deep desire to keep the person with you, but you have to be able to set that desire aside and risk losing them in order to give them a free choice, to let them decide on their own whether to be with you. In the case we're discussing, the end goal is different, but the nature of the letting go is similar. It doesn't mean abandoning the relationship, it means setting aside the desire to cling to the relationship and just going with the flow of events.

 

[Mr Light]

So who are everyone's favorite characters? I think I'd rank them Toph > Iroh > Aang > Azula > Katara > Sokka > Zuko. And if you think it's fair to rank Momo and Appa as characters, well then they're number one with a bullet And looking back on the series as a whole I still maintain that Season Two was better than Season Three. Not that Three was bad it was just wasn't quite as good. I prefer them going around the Earth Kingdom to being undercover in the Fire Nation. And of course I missed Iroh/Mako.