News JANEWAY RETURNS! Star Trek: Prodigy

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by F. King Daniel, Oct 8, 2020.

  1. Bornin1980something

    Bornin1980something Captain Captain

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    Bringing Kes back might not be a good idea without Jennifer Lien. But, I would like to see her race again. Now, you might not like this, but I would keep the nine year lifespan. Indeed, I think that would actually work well in a kid's show.
     
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  2. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    It might at that. One peculiarity of Roald Dahl's "The Witches" (the book) was that at the end, the young protagonist has a projected lifespan of only a few more years. But, that's not a big deal for him because he didn't want to outlive his grandmother (who raised him). An adult viewing the same story might disagree, which might be why the movie ended differently.
     
  3. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, I wouldn't face kids with the prospect of getting old and die. It's bad enough as it is for adults. Let the kids enjoy their time as kids.
    Besides that, the nine-year lifespan sucked. A bad and meaningless concept.
     
  4. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I mean, people getting old and dying is definitely something a child shouldn’t know about, since they aren’t going to have to deal with it anytime soon...oh, wait.
     
  5. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    We all face the concept of mortality at some point. My first real brush with it came when I was about 7 or 8 and a friend of my sister's died in a car accident. I think my parents were focused on how it was affecting her, and they didn't really realize that I was affected as well.
     
  6. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My point is that death is currently a part of life -in fact much more than being shot at- I don't think it's really necessary or wise to shelter children from the concept.
     
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  7. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why force it down the throats of the kids? They will learn about it soon enough.

    When I was a kid, there was someone dying each and every year from I was five until I was 17. Grandparents, uncles, aunts, other relatives, friends to my parents and I got really sick and tired of it.

    Add to this some major tragic events in my adulthood as well and you'll understand why I've become even more sick and tired of it.

    The whole "let's kill off Kes thing" combined with the recent events of the actress are quite disturbing for me due to real events in my life which I don't want to go into here. Therefore my opinion about that subject.

    As for Star Trek, I watch it to get some excitement and relief from the daily misery in the "Gray Universe" where I'm bound to live, not to have even more melodrama and tragic run down my throat.
     
  8. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Remember that "Prodigy" is going to present us with at least three, maybe as many as six* completely new alien races to explore. So if the Ocampa don't return, it's not the end of the world.


    *One character is a robot of some sort, not sure if they're actually alive. Another may or may not be a Talaxian. And a third could theoretically be one of Odo's "siblings", since at least 95 of them are still unaccounted for.
     
  9. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Mostly, I've always hated stories that were dumbed-down for kids, even when I was a kid I knew it was not supposed to work that way.

    I really find it stretches believability when no one ever dies in a crisis situation, especially if the justification is extremely contrived or totally absent.

    I'm not talking about Wil.e Coyote surviving anything - that's obviously not meant to be taken seriously, I'm talking for example about Star Wars Resistance, when nobody dies in a whole season against all odds (and then a whole planet blows up because it connects with the main story!) or Kirk being conveniently resurrected at the end of ITTD in a way that should have really wide implications but is totally forgotten elsewhere.

    Also, I believe that a child should have a chance to accustom themselves to the concept by being introduced early to the idea, not have to cope with it when a beloved grandparent dies. But then I never found that lying to a child saying "he's gone to a better place" was a particularly good idea.

    This is another question whatsoever. I think she should be killed off if and only if it serves the story, not just because. This is why I understand Icheb dying in Picard (I didn't particularly appreciate the graphic way it was depicted, but it worked within the story) but hated how they killed off Hugh, feeling they wasted him for no real reason.
     
  10. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I hate what they did to Icheb in that episode. In fact, it made me stop watching Picard. Not immediately but shortly after because this is exactly what I hate with today's blood-splattering doom-and-gloom dystopian 2010;s-2020:s series.

    The point is that never cared much for Icheb-up to that point. He was one of those Voyager characters I could have lived without. Today I would join a "Bring back and restore Icheb" group without hesitation.

    And when it comes to Kes, I see no reason at all to kill her off and no reason at all for that horrible episode in season 6 which never should have been made. not to mention that the nine-year lifespan was crap because such a short-lived species could never develope into anything more than primates. It was just another of those whimsical ideas the writers came up witb which didn't really work.

    I must also admit that Kes is a special favorite of mine, therefore my negative reaction to some of this. However, it wasn't my intention to turn this into another Kes debate. Just a suggestion to bring her back as an animated character which obviously has been turned into something it wasn't supposed to be.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  11. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    i hated the gore, but he dying made sense in 7’s character’s arc, so ok.

    that was awful and pointless.

    it was mentioned a few times that ancient Ocampa lived decades. Unfortunately both Kes and the Ocampa ended up being underdeveloped.
     
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  12. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Kes wasn't Trek's most egregious example of "superfast development". Sim in "Similitude" and the Jem'Hadar in DS9 are worse. Consider the latter: they are capable of speech and lethal in combat at 3 days. Even if you consider age 15 in human years to be combat capable, that's a grown acceleration factor of about x1800. It was just one of those things you had to turn off your brain for.

    The Clone Army in Star Wars was handled much better (growth acceleration was only x2, as opposed to ×2000 or so).
     
  13. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, the Jem’Hadar basically come programmed to fight and worship the founders.
     
  14. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, but consider the time and effort required to teach a human to speak. The Jem'Hadar have that preprogrammed as well.
     
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  15. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No doubts.
     
  16. Bornin1980something

    Bornin1980something Captain Captain

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    Interesting. When was this mentioned?

    The Jem’Hadar are also short lifers. I believe their natural lifespan is about 25 years, but it is usually much shorter because they keep dying in battle.
     
  17. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In Cold
    Fire almost for sure, possibly other times as well.

    yep. And if they get this old they meet the founders.
     
  18. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    The point is...

    Sim: Able to talk at 4-year-old level at 2-3 days. That's 500-700x the human norm. We'll leave out the whole "genetically encoded memories a la Assassin's Creed" thing for now.
    Jem'Hadar: Able to talk intelligently and fight at 3 days. That's 1800x the human norm.
    Ocampa: Able to function at near-adult level at one year. That's only 15-18x the human norm.

    So while Ocampa rapid maturation is odd, it's nothing compared to other races.
     
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  19. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The difference is that Sim and the Jem'Hadar were gebetically created. The Ocampa are not.
     
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  20. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Still, that's one hell of a genetic trick, encoding adult level linguistics into a person's DNA. Humans have to be taught to speak, after all.