*cringe* I would have gone for 'secondary character', lol.
James Kirk in "Discovery"?
- Thread starter dswynne1
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It would be no more of a 'crutch' than Picard being able to blow up the Borg Cube by firing at a spot that Data stated "does not appear to be a vital system" in Star Trek: First Contact. (Sorry that never made sense to em as Dr. Crusher stated she removed all the Borg Implants and corrected the DNA changes at the end of BoBW II. If Borg tech IS still in Picard, it's amazing in 3 years it never reasserted itself.)
IE - As long as the interaction makes sense TO THE STORY - it's fine. Hell, it may answer HOW Spock was able to get in contact with "The Keeper" on Talos IV to make sure Pike would be welcome to live with them after his accident - and to plan the court martial 'illusion' to keep Kirk and Co. busy until they got there in TOS S1 - "The Menagerie"
^^^
That's actually a VALID question too (IE HOW did Spock contact "The Keeper" as he NEVER had any direct contact with "The Keeper" (or any other Talosians) in the TOS Pilot "The Cage". The lat thing we saw of Spock prior to the ending was him standing in the Transporter Room exclaiming "The Women". So, here's WHERE Spock met and interacted with "The Keeper" (or some Talosians) directly; and knew of a way later to contact him and tell him of what happened to Pike, etc.
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That would be James T's brother right? The one he once lost, but got back
I'm looking forward to Michael's sex change to change into Sybok -- adds up (raised as siblings), and Spock saying "he's my brother, he was raised as my sister" would have just confused matters.
We may well find out by the end of this season - another plot hole closed
Sybok's mother was a Vulcan princess. Sarek was married at least 3 times.
My thinking is that Pike spoke with Spock more about what happened at some point after they left Talos IV. It may be mentioned in this season of DSC, but if not, my thinking is Pike, Number One or Boyce mentioned it to Spock. He is, after all, Senior Staff on Enterprise, so he may be privy to information as to what happened on Talos IV.It would be no more of a 'crutch' than Picard being able to blow up the Borg Cube by firing at a spot that Data stated "does not appear to be a vital system" in Star Trek: First Contact. (Sorry that never made sense to em as Dr. Crusher stated she removed all the Borg Implants and corrected the DNA changes at the end of BoBW II. If Borg tech IS still in Picard, it's amazing in 3 years it never reasserted itself.)
IE - As long as the interaction makes sense TO THE STORY - it's fine. Hell, it may answer HOW Spock was able to get in contact with "The Keeper" on Talos IV to make sure Pike would be welcome to live with them after his accident - and to plan the court martial 'illusion' to keep Kirk and Co. busy until they got there in TOS S1 - "The Menagerie"
^^^
That's actually a VALID question too (IE HOW did Spock contact "The Keeper" as he NEVER had any direct contact with "The Keeper" (or any other Talosians) in the TOS Pilot "The Cage". The lat thing we saw of Spock prior to the ending was him standing in the Transporter Room exclaiming "The Women". So, here's WHERE Spock met and interacted with "The Keeper" (or some Talosians) directly; and knew of a way later to contact him and tell him of what happened to Pike, etc.
Spock did do research on the Talosians and gave a briefing, including knowing how great their power of illusion was. So putting that together with Pike's experience would give Spock knowledge of what happened.
As to how he contacted the Talosians, if he was able to forge communications to Enterprise to get them to Starbase 11 as well as the communications from Kirk to the Enterprise, I'm sure he was able to send something to Talos IV without Enterprise detecting where it was going.
Early on last season, I had a similar idea as well. In fact, I thought he was going to show up before Spock - saving the latter for the penultimate piece to Burnham's arc. I think post-Farragut/Tyco Kirk would make for a great character study. Like you say, he most certainly had PTSD but I've always wondered if he might not have even been a little suicidal.
So my thought was - back when Mirror Lorca was just a fan theory - that Kirk would be just the kind of person Lorca would take under his wing: someone whose tactical aptitude scores exceed any other graduate in the academy's history but was on the verge of washing out. Or worse.
* One thing about keeping Kirk on Disco though, I think he also represents the next logical step for Discovery, thematically speaking. That is, if this season is exploring the more abstract science v. faith bits of Starfleet, the next step would be to explore the more literal science v. military.
It's always been there, of course. Kirk and Spock themselves. But also Picard/Riker, Sisko/Dax, etc. But it's only ever been the mantlepiece or set dressing. It's never really been directly examined.
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To add further to that, in Drastic Measures, Lorca was on Talos IV as well during Kodos' mass murder. I don't think he personally interacted with Lorca, but I might be wrong.
However, he did assist Prime Georgiou during the initial search for Kodos, as a youngster. He would know her, or think he knew her, quite well, and probably looks up to her.
However, he did assist Prime Georgiou during the initial search for Kodos, as a youngster. He would know her, or think he knew her, quite well, and probably looks up to her.
Slap me sideways, I'd watch the hell out of Young Kirk in the S31 series. Initially I thought it'd be a semi-redemption/anti-hero story for Georgiou and her bringing down S31 to tidy up the eventual timeline, but having her be the primary frenemy to a young Kirk is WAY better.
the Kirk/S31 stuff reminds me of Alias.. with JJ Prise. Where Sydney thought she was working for the CIA etc doing good, but was in fact with the bad guys, and her finding the good people in it, and going after the bad people. Not a bad premise, and in the LitVerse, Kirk has a passion for seaking out S31 and destroying it, maybe this is what lead to that, and why in Disco(ball) that Everyone seems to know about S31 and in Ds9 its a undercover squirrel section..
I wouldn't mind that type of series, Kirk and Georgou and a Teacher/mentor relationship, It would just be the timing on when Kirk finds out that he's a bad guy, and then goes after S31.
I noticed that in Disco, that they mentioned "Control" Was that in Ds9 or was it a take away from the LitVerse??
I wouldn't mind that type of series, Kirk and Georgou and a Teacher/mentor relationship, It would just be the timing on when Kirk finds out that he's a bad guy, and then goes after S31.
I noticed that in Disco, that they mentioned "Control" Was that in Ds9 or was it a take away from the LitVerse??
Young Kirk in Section 31 sounds awful. They should definitely do it.
+1 for 'squirrel section'
Anyway, David Mack (write of Control) has implied to us in the Lit forum that it was just a coincidence and not related. As if that is gonna stop us, haha.
Don't get me wrong, this is 99.9% unlikely to happen. Kirk (and Spock, and any other main TOS characters) is best reserved as a guest character or a supporting character at best. Any major character introduced in the S31 show, or any future show, should be an original character.
Control is an advanced AI shaping Federation history for its own needs until proven otherwise.
Kirk is one of the last people I'd ever expect to be involved with Section 31. Even young Lieutenant Kirk of the DSC era.
Even if the Farragut disaster has already happened (and I hope it hasn't, as I'd love to see what DSC could do with it), it would be far more likely that the aftermath would see Kirk retreating into the "stack of books with legs" that Gary once called him. Meaning, he deals with the trauma by taking a teaching position at the Academy.
Even if the Farragut disaster has already happened (and I hope it hasn't, as I'd love to see what DSC could do with it), it would be far more likely that the aftermath would see Kirk retreating into the "stack of books with legs" that Gary once called him. Meaning, he deals with the trauma by taking a teaching position at the Academy.
Also, James R Kirk was Burnham's best friend at the Academy and later lover. Spock's turning him in forever ruined any chance at reconciliation between him and Michael. From that point on he had no sister.
Sarek's first wife was from Earth, according to his eponymous TNG episode. So, he either wasn't married to Sybok's mother, or he married another human far earlier than Amanda, possibly in the late 22nd century or so. Or Picard was wrong when he said that. Or the Vulcan princess was from Earth.
The "Sybok is Michael" theory is silly, but I'll entertain it for a moment. Here's the relevant exchange from Star Trek V (via Chakoteya):
So, Sybok has the "same father" (Sarek) as Spock. If he's Michael, I guess that's referencing an adoption status or something, but Michael wasn't adopted by Amanda too? Does adoption work differently on Vulcan? How does this line up with what we know of Amanda's huge affection given to Michael in lieu of Spock?
It goes without saying that he (Sybok/Michael) has to have gotten a sex change, race change, and species change, since he's constantly referred to as Vulcan, maybe to the point of an Ash Tyler-esque surgery.
And if MiBok was raised by Sarek and Amanda, even if only Sarek filled out the paperwork, referring to him as a half-brother as opposed to foster brother or adopted brother is just plain obfuscation.
And "Sybok's mother was a Vulcan princess" who died and then Spock and he were raised as brothers (err, siblings, but I get it). So, I guess Michael's human mother was also a Vulcan princess? Maybe Mrs. Burnham was adopted by Vulcan royalty and that's why they were living on that Vulcan colony. Technically "Vulcan princess" could just mean a Princess of the planet Vulcan and not necessarily of the Vulcan species. Maybe she was a beauty contest winner.
Either that, or they WERE married and the marriage was later annulled (so effectively it never happened). The latter explanation is what the novelverse has gone with.
As for Sybok: I can't remember, is he supposed to be older or younger than Spock? Perhaps Sybok has already been exiled from Vulcan as of DSC's time.
The dialogue in STV I posted above makes it pretty clear that Sybok is Spock's older brother and that he and Spock were raised alongside each other for some period of years. So, if he's exiled, it has to be within Spock's living memory and not before he was born.
It's possible that he was exiled shortly before Michael was adopted when Spock was about six years old. Currently, the Star Trek Chronology has Sybok at about three years older than Michael, so he would only be about 13 at that time. Maybe he's with his mother's royal family half the year, or perhaps Sarek sent him off to boarding school while he did creepy experiments trying to turn humans and human hybrids into Vulcan wannabes.
I hear he went nuts and tried taking over the Enterprise. That story about the transporter accident doubling things was a cover up to hide his existence.
Kurtzman very specifically stated that, in one of the first few interviews he gave about Season 2.
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