James Kirk in "Discovery"?

[BillJ]

I've always felt Kirk and Spock's conversation at the start of WNMHGB represents one of their earliest if not first conversations. I mean Spock only felt comfortable telling Kirk he had human ancestry, not a human mother.

I tend to disagree. They seem pretty informal with each other, Spock even calling Kirk "Jim" when discussing what to do with Mitchell.

I always figured they had been serving together about a year by the time of "Where No Man...". It would take a while to get to the edge of the galaxy.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Has everyone forgotten the Vulcan extremists? They may have framed Spock, is another option. And are we sure S31 'captured' Spock? They may have rescued / saved his life, is another option - which would finally soften their ebil image a bit, eh?

Oh, and Kirk on DSC? If there is a good reason, sure.

My guess is S31 kidnapped him for his knowledge of the seven signals.

 

[Tuskin38]

My guess is S31 kidnapped him for his knowledge of the seven signals.

While they never said exactly when Spock “escaped”, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was after Pike told command what he knew.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I mean Spock only felt comfortable telling Kirk he had human ancestry, not a human mother.

I doubt the writers had yet established just which of Spock's ancestors was human.

It's like Deanna on early TNG. Up until the point where Majel first played Lwaxana, the writers probably didn't know which of Deanna's parents was going to be the alien. So once Majel shows up, obviously Lwaxana is. And implying that Deanna picked up her odd Season 1 accent from her father. (But by the time we actually meet Deanna's father, he has no such accent.)

 

[Noname Given]

What's funny is Picard mentions attending Sarek's "son's wedding" so it introduced a whole new wrinkle.

^^^
It also shows some TNG writers didn't really know how 'Ponn Farr' worked in Vulcan society (per TOS - "Amok Time" when T'Pau was first incredulous when she asked - "Are our cerimonies for Outworlders?" to which Spock replied "These are my friends...I am permitted this.")

 

[BillJ]

^^^
It also shows some TNG writers didn't really know how 'Ponn Farr' worked in Vulcan society (per TOS - "Amok Time" when T'Pau was first incredulous when she asked - "Are our cerimonies for Outworlders?" to which Spock replied "These are my friends...I am permitted this.")

Maybe Spock married a human, and Picard attended that ceremony?

 

[JoeZhang]

To be fair, "something's wrong with Spock" is the engine that drives any number of classic Trek eps: "Amok Time," "The Menagerie," "This Side of Paradise," "All Our Yesterdays," TMP, etc. Even the whale movie starts off with Kirk and McCoy wondering if Spock is all there, mentally.

And I think we can safely assume that Spock did NOT murder any doctors, just like Scotty didn't actually murder anybody in "Wolf in Fold" and Kirk didn't actually kill Ben Finney in "Court Martial."

"Series regular is suspected of murder" is just a standard TV trope.

Maybe Spock married a human, and Picard attended that ceremony?

Or Spock simply broke that taboo and it fell into disuse.

 

[Noname Given]

I doubt the writers had yet established just which of Spock's ancestors was human.

It's like Deanna on early TNG. Up until the point where Majel first played Lwaxana, the writers probably didn't know which of Deanna's parents was going to be the alien. So once Majel shows up, obviously Lwaxana is. And implying that Deanna picked up her odd Season 1 accent from her father. (But by the time we actually meet Deanna's father, he has no such accent.)

To be fair that's not the point - the point is: It's YATI (IE Yet Another Trek Inconsistency) and even when you know/understand the Production reason behind it - the trick is you HAVE to come up with a good "In Universe" explanation for it so it's no longer an Inconsistency - because we ALL KNOW Star Trel continuity/canon IS wholly 'consistent' <--- Please note the

 

[Greg Cox]

Or Spock simply broke that taboo and it fell into disuse.

Yep. Given that, well, a generation passes between those two weddings, it's reasonable to assume that customs may have evolved.

Heck, pon farr was a deep dark secret in TOS, but seems to have become common knowledge by the 24th century.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yep. Given that, well, a generation passes between those two weddings, it's reasonable to assume that customs may have evolved.

Heck, pon farr was a deep dark secret in TOS, but seems to have become common knowledge by the 24th century.

Wasn't Spock blabbing about it to Droxine in the Cloud Minders?

 

[Ovation]

Wasn't Spock blabbing about it to Droxine in the Cloud Minders?

He was. You should ask T’Bonz about it. As I recall she gets all warm and fuzzy when anyone brings it up.

 

[Nerys Myk]

He was. You should ask T’Bonz about it. As I recall she gets all warm and fuzzy when anyone brings it up.

Not falling for that...again

 

[Noname Given]

Or Spock simply broke that taboo and it fell into disuse.

^^^
Ah - the irony (and no this isn't directed to the person above) in that:
Me:

It also shows some TNG writers didn't really know how 'Ponn Farr' worked in Vulcan society (per TOS - "Amok Time" when T'Pau was first incredulous when she asked - "Are our cerimonies for Outworlders?" to which Spock replied "These are my friends...I am permitted this.")

TNG fans: Well, the custom changed...

Subset of TNG Fans:

Kingons with no hair during War is BS - the Klingons should have shaved their heads SOOO MANY TIMES during TNG/DS9..

ST: D Fans: Well, maybe the custom changed/was abandoned...

Subset of TNG fans: Lame excuses....

 

[fireproof78]

ST: D Fans: Well, maybe the custom changed/was abandoned...

That's because Discovery.

 

[Phoenix219]

I tend to disagree. They seem pretty informal with each other, Spock even calling Kirk "Jim" when discussing what to do with Mitchell.

I always figured they had been serving together about a year by the time of "Where No Man...". It would take a while to get to the edge of the galaxy.

Yup - sounds about right - which is why I've always considered "Where No Man..." to be the season finale of an unseen "Year One" of the mission. These guys are old friends by this point - what kind of trio would Kelso, Mitchell and Kirk made? Spock was there before anyone else - how did he adapt to the new Captain and his longtime buddies?

 

[Gov Kodos]

I've always felt Kirk and Spock's conversation at the start of WNMHGB represents one of their earliest if not first conversations. I mean Spock only felt comfortable telling Kirk he had human ancestry, not a human mother.

As I recall, Kirk's first real look into Spock's family is finding out his family is connected to T'Pau in Amok Time. Kirk doesn't even know who Spock's parents are until Journey to Babel.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Oh please everytime I hear the: "needs to succeed or fail on its own merits." bit, again:

- IN the TNG pilot they had Deforest Kelly as "Admiral McCoy" a 137 year old man who for some reason took a trip to what even the pilot described as "the edge of Federation space" aka Farpoint station JUST to get a look at the 1701-D?

- TNG's first regular episode past the pilot was "The Naked Now" - a remake of a classic episode of TOS, yet hell, they hadn't even really established the main TNG characters at this point (when TOS did it, it was the 7th episode filmed so yeah, the characters HAD some background at that point for the audience to latch on to). in the epsidoe they MADE sure to mention the 1701 AND Kirk.

- All throughout the first season they had a bunch of TOS model and props littered all over the background in various interior ship and conference room shots.

- Season 2 replaced Crusher with Doctor Leonard McCoy in EVERYTHING but gender - and tried (and spectacularly failed) to create a McCoy/Spock dynamic with Pulaski/Data, but the writers failed to realize that Data WASN'T Spock and it came across like she was a just a bigoted old lady berating an innocent child.
^^^
And this was across the first 46 episodes of TNG. (To date ST: D has aied 18 episodes.)

Again, you can try and dismiss this all you want, but the fact is, NO TNG did not start out trying to succeed or fail on it''s own merits; it TOO used (then 20 year old) aspects and popular characters from the franchise history to try and enhance and 'validate' itself when starting its run.

You forgot the most important one: The name of the ship.

Not to mention, every episode opened with the same monolog and fanfare and used the theme music from the first film. In terms of functional or practical nostalgia apparatuses, those are all much more effective than any single character or group of characters or any MacGuffin could ever hope to be. And they were present every single week.

The very conceit of TNG was a "callback".

 

[UssGlenn]

These guys are old friends by this point - what kind of trio would Kelso, Mitchell and Kirk made? Spock was there before anyone else - how did he adapt to the new Captain and his longtime buddies?

Speaking of which, I just watched WNMHGB, Denher mentioned that Spock and Mitchell have served together for years. So we could have Mitchell on the Enterprise under Pike before Kirk takes command.

 

[Phoenix219]

Speaking of which, I just watched WNMHGB, Denher mentioned that Spock and Mitchell have served together for years. So we could have Mitchell on the Enterprise under Pike before Kirk takes command.

Which would confirm both that Kirk had another command before Enterprise, and that he requested Mitchell for it. Will we finally get the Mitchell/Kirk history and friendship on Discovery of all places?

 

[Paul Weaver]

Perhaps Picard attended Burnhams wedding and wasn’t paying attention - assumed “Michael” was Sarek’s son.